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Old 10-27-2019, 10:24 AM   #21
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Hello again. I couldnt get the picture or even read the furnace model number because it was dark and I had to use a flashlight and the model numbers are printed very tiny on a reflective sticker so the light from the flashlight is all I see Haha. So I thought I would first get the extension cord and adapter if needed and try your plugging in suggestion first. The plug on my sunline says this: "Connection is for 110 - 125 volt AC, 60-Hz 30 ampere supply." My daughters outdoor outlet is just your standard outdoor outlet. Im attaching a pic of the plug on the sunline. A friend of mine said it looks like a dryer plug. Hopefully this is the correct plug on this Sunline. So my question is what kind of extension cord and adapter should I get?
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:45 PM   #22
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Hello again. I couldnt get the picture or even read the furnace model number because it was dark and I had to use a flashlight and the model numbers are printed very tiny on a reflective sticker so the light from the flashlight is all I see Haha. So I thought I would first get the extension cord and adapter if needed and try your plugging in suggestion first. The plug on my sunline says this: "Connection is for 110 - 125 volt AC, 60-Hz 30 ampere supply." My daughters outdoor outlet is just your standard outdoor outlet. Im attaching a pic of the plug on the sunline. A friend of mine said it looks like a dryer plug. Hopefully this is the correct plug on this Sunline. So my question is what kind of extension cord and adapter should I get?
That is a 30 amp 120 volt plug it will only connect to a 30 amp RV outlet. Now the good news they make an adapter that will allow you to plug it into a standard household outlet. Once you have done so it is only good for whatever that outlet is protected either 15 or 20 amps so running every thing AC etc in the camper will likely trip the house breaker but normal use you should be fine. Even a good hardware store should have the adapter.
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:50 PM   #23
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Hi Mainah. Thanks so much for your reply! Ill go to the rv supply store tomorrow because theyre closed now. Also I think I got the model# to the furnace. Its the only one I could find and it was tough to see. I had to use glasses and a magnifying glass just to see it. So this is what I got.
Model FA 7918 and again its a hydro flame everest star 79/80 series.
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Old 11-07-2019, 10:30 AM   #24
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Hello everyone. We're gonna have an electrician install a new circuit breaker and outlet on my daughters house outside. It would be better to install a regular house outlet so my daughters family can use it when we leave. And cheaper I think. We wont be running a lot of things in the trailor. Lights, furnace,and once in a while computer, and charging phones. They may also have Christmas lights plugged into the same circuit. Would this be too much for a standard house outlet? Thanks! Gettn pretty cold but so far we've been comfortable with a portable propane heater and hay around the outside for insulation. We also have a CO2 detector.
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:10 PM   #25
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General-use household electrical circuits are normally wired with a 15 or 20 amp circuit breaker. 20 amps would allow you to use a total of 2400 watts in your camper. That should be ample to run everything you're likely to use over the winter, set up as you describe.

You could even run an electric space heater--they're usually only 1500 watts on the high setting. Might not be able to run a microwave, hair dryer or toaster at the same time, though.

Christmas lights are a negligible load unless you're a Clark Griswold.
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:30 PM   #26
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One caveat extension cords. If you can plug the camper in directly you should be fine but 50' of extension cord is not a good ideal. A 20 amp circuit is what you will need regardless.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:05 PM   #27
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Its gonna be on a 100ft extension cord. So does that mean the electrician should install a 220 outlet? If Im even getting this right?
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Old 11-07-2019, 10:11 PM   #28
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Everything else aside, a 240V circuit wouldn't be practically usable for much of anything for the kids once you move on.

At 100', you could maybe just get by with a 12 gauge extension cord, not running anything heavy-duty. I'd opt for 10 gauge. Harbor Freight has one for a fairly reasonable price.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:10 AM   #29
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Oh thank goodness! And thank Mainah! You are a god send Mainah! And the Sunline community! Ok so a regular household outlet with a 10 gauge cord.
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:12 AM   #30
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You will be OK with # 10 but only to about 10-12 amp load beyond that the voltage will start to nose dive. Your total run will be 150 feet the camper cable is about 50' does not matter if it's stretch out or coiled up. A 240 volt service won't gain you anything with a 120 volt load. If you can figure out a way to keep the connection dry you could reduce your length by 50'. A quality 50' number 10 extension will be something close to $100
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:00 PM   #31
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Its gonna be on a 100ft extension cord. So does that mean the electrician should install a 220 outlet? If Im even getting this right?
So it is not misunderstood, do not have an electrician run 220 volts into your camper. There is "nothing" in your camper that will run correctly on 220 volts. You may burn up something trying to do that. All AC power in the camper is at 120 volts.

The older 220 volt dryer looking plug is not the same as an RV 120 volt plug. Looks close, but it's not the same plug. This is a common mistake. Even some electricians who are not familiar with RV’s get this mixed up.
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Old 11-09-2019, 05:22 PM   #32
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Fortunately it will not fit. It is a TT30P ( plug) and only will connect to a TT30R (receptacle). It will immediately trip a 220 breaker if so wireded because one lead would be a dead short to ground.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:59 PM   #33
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Hi mainah,

There is more than one way to mess this up. I agree that TT30P ( plug) and only will connect to a TT30R (receptacle). It would not fit in the older 220 dryer outlet.

But,,, there is always one. That is not the only way some electricians have goofed this. Trust me, it happens. Do a Google search on it. Here is one Mis-wiring a 120-volt RV outlet with 240-volts | No~Shock~Zone

A case in point, it happened in my new barn last summer. I hired an electrical contractor to wire up the barn. I gave him a wiring diagram and full written spec on what I wanted including the TT30R receptacle with a disconnect switch about it. I explained this is a special RV outlet. 30 amp 120 volts, not 30 amp 220 volt. The frim owner understood it, their site foreman understood it. They rough wired in the TT30R receptacle with 10/2 with ground and connected the lugs at the outlet correctly. But that is not where the goof happened.

They made it past the rough in inspection fine. Then they started closing up the panel box. The site foreman was not there that day and assigned the breaker box to another electrician to finish up. They also had some 220, 50 amp welding outlets to do and they know them, a current day standard 4 wire 50 amp 220 outlet.

Then came the camper outlet. They installed a 30 amp 220 breaker. Hooked the black wire to one pole and the white neutral to the other pole. Now I have a 220 volt 30 amp TT30R receptacle. They powered up the system and since nothing was plugged into the outlet, nothing happened. The final inspection was the next day, and I walked the job and took special interest at the 30 amp RV outlet. I pulled the outlet cover and it was all wired right. Then looked in the breaker box. Darn, your kidding me.... Yup they goofed, it's a 220 breaker? We got it fixed before the inspection and all is well.

Point, these RV outlets are not common to electricians who have never run into one. They just think they are the older 30 amp dryer outlets.

To this comment,
Quote:
It will immediately trip a 220 breaker if so wireded because one lead would be a dead short to ground.
H'mm, OK what did I miss? I'm not seeing that. I know we have talked on this a lot in the past in posts and you agree. The camper is seen by code as an appliance. The AC neutral floats. The neutral is not tied to earth ground at the camper, only at the main breaker box. (single point grounding) Where is the dead short when they plug it in? 220 would go right into the camper with a live neutral and could start damaging whatever was turned on. Help show me what I missed. Seriously, I goof every now and then too. It won't be the first time, or the last, but I thought I had this right.
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:08 AM   #34
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If there are zero loads yes. Converter,AC units, water heater anything plugged in will provide a ground path to the other phase it will not do them a bit of good but yeah it will trip the breaker. The camper box is a sub panel it's neutral and ground are separated however in the house they are joined together. It would be easy to do because it may not be the same person landing the wires in the box that did the outlet if the run is marked 220 outlet that's what the guy at the panel is going to do.
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:20 PM   #35
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Hi mainah,

I read the words your typing, and it made me think even harder on this, but I'm still not seeing a "dead short to ground". And I'm assuming we both mean, a dead short is very little to no resistance in the connected path of the hot wire to ground.

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If there are zero loads yes. Converter,AC units, water heater anything plugged in will provide a ground path to the other phase it will not do them a bit of good but yeah it will trip the breaker. The camper box is a sub panel it's neutral and ground are separated however in the house they are joined together.
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It will immediately trip a 220 breaker if so wireded because one lead would be a dead short to ground.
This is how I'm seeing this. Tell me where I go wrong and where there is a direct path to ground to trip the 220 30 amp breaker instantly.

In this case, someone goofed and wired the TT30R outlet to a 220V 30 amp supply. The camper is wired correctly for 120V 30 amp with a hot, isolated neutral and earth ground wire in the shore line cable. They then plug the camper into a hot 220 volt supply.

In this instance, both incoming legs are hot in relation to ground and they are both isolated from ground, at least to start with.

When that 220V reaches the power converter that is always on as there is no on/off switch normally for it, it immediately goes into overvolt. The converter is a resistive load, it has some resistance to it. It is not a 0 ohm path between the 2 hot legs coming in. It could be starting to fry itself from the overvolts. The converter is also part of a branch circuit inside the camper protected by a 15 amp breaker in the normal hot leg. If the converter melted it's insulation and hot leg (black wire) went to ground, it would trip the 15 amp breaker. Since there is a 15 amp breaker in this situation, it's a race on which breaker trips first, the camper 30 amp, the camper 15 amp, but the lower one I would think would go out first. It's a maybe on tripping the 15 amp breaker if the burning event is on the now hot (white) neutral wire burnt to ground.

In this situation, the white wire could melt apart leaving the white wire isolated or touching ground. If it went to ground, then yes the 220V breaker would trip.

The microwave is also, always live, at least powering the display and electronics. It too, is a resistive load between the 2 hot legs feeding it. It is going into overvolt too. What fries inside it first is TBD. It is also on a 15 amp breaker like the converter. It may be the same one as the converter or seperate. The same burn it self up applies here and trip a breaker in the camper like at the converter.

The roof AC unit is not normally on, but could be. There is an inductive load with the 2 motors and they do not like the overvolt either. These are usually protected by a 20 amp breaker. If the wiring starts to burn up, then the same thing here would happen like the converter.

The water heater has a resistive load if it was on when the 220V came in. It may not be normal to be on, but it could be. There is still a resistive load between the 2 hot legs and 1 leg protected by a 15 amp breaker.

Where is the dead short to ground upon power up? The 120 volt neutral in the camper is isolated from ground. While the neutral wire is a 220v hot in this case rather than a neutral, there are resistive or inductive loads between the 2 hot legs. Anything electronic or the motors if they were on, can have a real hard time with the overvoltage. They may burn up and create a path to ground and that could trip the breakers in the camper or the 220 breaker. Or if enough of them fried all at once, maybe create enough amps to trip a 30 amp breaker, in the camper or at the 220 breaker. But that takes time to do burn up. You seemed to indicate there would be an immediate dead short to ground. That is what I'm not understanding, where in the camper is that connection that is hard enough to pull a full 30 amps to trip the 220V breaker instantly?


On the electricians wiring my camper outlet barn wrong.
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It would be easy to do because it may not be the same person landing the wires in the box that did the outlet if the run is marked 220 outlet that's what the guy at the panel is going to do.
There was a misunderstanding for sure. When that #10-2 w/gnd cable was roughed in, it was intended to be a 120 line by the guy pulling the wire. If they marked it, it should of been marked 120. Have no idea if they marked it. Maybe he walked to the outlet, looked at it and thought it was an older 220V 30 amp dryer outlet and wired it up 220.

There is also another thing that should of alerted him. Many 220 volt single phase outlets are now 4 wire outlets with a neutral. They just hooked up the 50 amp 220 volt 4 wire welding outlet. They would land a black and a red on a breaker lug. The white would be on the neutral buss and the ground on the ground buss. They do them all day long. When they came to the RV outlet, that cable only had 2 wires a ground. In this day and age, I would think putting a white wire and not a red wire onto the 2nd pole of a 220V breaker should of made him stop and think about it. I really do not know what went through his head when he did this mixup. I'm just glad I tested it before using it or the inspector plugged her tester into it on the final and have to deal with that. All I can say is, "it happens" even with the best of them.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:32 PM   #36
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The camper box is a sub panel it's neutral and ground are separated however in the house they are joined together.
True, but if the TT30 gets wired with a ground and two hots (240V), there is no connection to the main panel neutral, thus no direct path to ground. I'm with John; don't see your reasoning.

I do agree that breakers would most likely be popping quickly, but simply due to breakdown within devices being fed with twice the voltage they were designed for.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:05 PM   #37
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I would not suggest joining two 240 leads together but that is what would happen with any load across them it will let the smoke out. The 120 volt has but one hot wire it's other one is neutral the other end of the white feed wire in a sub panel is landed on ground in the main panel it is not isolated.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:14 PM   #38
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With a true hardwired subpanel, yes, the white/neutral ties into ground back at the main panel. But that path doesn't exist when your only connections to the main panel are via a miswired TT30.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:17 PM   #39
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I would not suggest joining two 240 leads together but that is what would happen with any load across them it will let the smoke out.

The 120 volt has but one hot wire it's other one is neutral the other end of the white feed wire in a sub panel is landed on ground in the main panel it is not isolated.
I think it's safe to say, we all agree with single point grounding, the neutral and the ground wire are only to be common in one place, the main entrance panel. We got that.

In this miswired situation, there is no neutral wire entering the camper. There are 2 hot 220V wires and 1 ground wire. No neutral. Do we not agree on this point?

As to 220 volts totally frying any load by an appliance/device in the camper instantly, I'm not agreeing with that. There has been several cases of this happening, and while power converters have been damaged and other electronics, they have not vaporized.

Hoping to understand your thought process here on how the earth ground is connected to one of those 2 hot wires instantly. That is the point we seem to not be seeing. There is no neutral in the camper. Help us see this.
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Old 11-11-2019, 03:14 PM   #40
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30 amps at 240 across a load is going to smoke it either the camper breaker or the house breaker will trip unless it blows it to pieces. The sub panel white wire is the neutral the copper/green wire is ground never the two should meet. That is the premise of not having a hot metal frame work in a camper in case something is reversed wired plug or outlet. If the converter is old and it does not blow up, for a little while you'll have a 24 volt DC system. Never seen a switching system survive over voltage.
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