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Old 10-02-2012, 05:31 AM   #1
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A/C Problems

I picked up my trailer this past Sunday, last night I was cleaning up in there and making sure everything works (the prev. owner said everything works great)... I wanted to see if the a/c worked. Played with the thermostat and nothing happend, I pulled down the cover where the filter is and saw that it was unplugged. The fan instantly came on. I went to the thermostat looked at it, it was off but the fan was running. Flipped it to a/c and everything dimmed as the compressor tried to start.
I played with the stat some more and failed to get the fan to shut off the only way I could is if I unplugged it.. However I didn't check the if the furnace light or worked right as it was already 8:45 and pitch dark out.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:08 AM   #2
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This is where the unit is unplugged.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:12 AM   #3
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For some reason it will only let me upload one pic per post.. But here is my thermostat.
Of course my wife is mad because I sold our perfect condition Popup for this Sunny and it needs a lil tlc lol.
Any help would be great!
Thanks,
Jay
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:32 PM   #4
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It sounds as if either the thermostat is bad, or the control box (Where the wires plug in) is possibly toast.

I would first try removing the thermostat cover and doing some testing. I'm making the assumption that your 99 would be considered an early model. If not, I can post "Current model" pictures too.

When you open the cover, you will see the wiring terminals at the top:



There is a procedure for testing to see if the thermostat itself is defective:





If you are curious about the control box wiring, here it is:



I would suggest that you do the analog thermostat tests and see if the thermostat itself is defective. There is very low voltage going to the thermostat, so you should be reasonably safe. Just get a short piece of wire and jumper the terminals per the instructions. In case the thermostat is bad, you might want to take the GND wire off it's terminal and jumper between the wire and the other terminals. Be very careful to not touch more than one terminal and the GND wire at one time.


Please let us know how you make out...
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:05 PM   #5
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Well the ac compressor won't shut off, I haven't dug into that yet. The real problem I have now is the furnace just clicks. The fan won't start at all. It's a direct light system (if that's what it is called). I'm going pull the unit out and clean it all up and volt test it. I talked to the previous owner and he said that he didn't use the heat much but this year it was acting funny.
So I'm thinking that it might be the circuit board, but will determine that after I clean and volt test.
Thanks for the schematics those will help out!
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
The real problem I have now is the furnace just clicks. The fan won't start at all. It's a direct light system (if that's what it is called). I'm going pull the unit out and clean it all up and volt test it. I talked to the previous owner and he said that he didn't use the heat much but this year it was acting funny.
So I'm thinking that it might be the circuit board, but will determine that after I clean and volt test.
Thanks for the schematics those will help out!
If the furnace is just clicking, it may not have propane all the way to it. If the propane system is unhooked for a while, the lines can all have air in them. Do the stove burners light? It would help us out, if you could find the model number on your furnace. Having that, will let us get the correct service manual for your furnace.

If it's an Atwood like ours, the fan should come on first thing. Since you are having both furnace and air conditioner problems, I would also seriously look at the thermostat. That is the one thing both of those appliances have in common!


*EDIT* Both of your appliances require 12Vdc to operate properly. If you have a digital multimeter, check your Sunline's battery voltage. The appliances have a minimum voltage, that will allow them to work. If your battery voltage is less than 12 volts, then that is where you need to start troubleshooting.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:06 PM   #7
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I'll grab the number off it tomorrow night. Yes I have lit all burners, I also have lit the polit light on the water heater. Indeed the fan should come on as it did in my Popup. Maybe tomorrow if I have a chance ill grab a thermostat tomorrow.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I picked up my trailer this past Sunday, last night I was cleaning up in there and making sure everything works (the prev. owner said everything works great)...

Step 1. I wanted to see if the a/c worked. Played with the thermostat and nothing happend,

Step 2 I pulled down the cover where the filter is and saw that it was unplugged.

Step 3 The fan instantly came on.

Step 4 I went to the thermostat looked at it, it was off but the fan was running.

Step 5 Flipped it to a/c and everything dimmed as the compressor tried to start.

Step 6 I played with the stat some more and failed to get the fan to shut off the only way I could is if I unplugged it..

However I didn't check the if the furnace light or worked right as it was already 8:45 and pitch dark out.
Hi Jay,

Something happened between step 2 and 3. Did you plug that connector back in and then the fan started to run?

That connector supplies all the power from the control board up to the roof unit. If it was unhooked then someone before you knew there was a problem.

Also to note, there is a saftey interlock between the furnace and the AC unit. If the AC unit control board in on, it will lock out the furnace. While you unplugged the connector off the control board, the board inside is still telling the AC system to run. In order to run the furnace, you need to fix the AC problem or remove the interlock from the furnace to the AC control board in the cieling.

Back to the AC unit. You need to trouble shoot the T stat first. You can run/shut off the AC unit by just jumping wires at the T stat. Gary's picture helps shows some of that. Here is a way to separate the T stat and control board up in the ceiling.

First write down where what is wired to what. At this point we have no idea if it is even hooked up right. If you take the wire off the FAN, COOL and HI Fan from the wires in the wall to the T stat, the AC unit and fan should stop running.

If you plug the roof unit back in and it still runs, then the problem points to the control board in the AC unit. The T stat tells the control board to run or stop unless the control board relays are burnt closed or the board has issues telling the relays to go on and then they will not stop at all.

If it actually stops running with those 3 wires lifted off the T stat, then the T stat has issues. If the AC runs with no wires on the T stat, then the control board has issues.

With those 3 wires lifted off the T stat, the furnace may or may not work, all depends is the control board up in the roof unit has problems.

Here is the T stat wiring diagram.


Hope this helps

John

PS: These controls are what we call "sink" output. They are looking for DC common to activate verses "source" meaning they are looking for a 12 volt + signal. If you look at the wiring diagram I linked when the fan connects to GND it turns on. A floating unhooked wire may be positive in voltage but it is not common to GND. I hope this does not confuse you.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:09 PM   #9
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Here is how to get the cover off the T stat. Insert screw driver and twist. It will then pop that one corner off. Work your way around



The wiring and colors should be like this
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:09 AM   #10
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Now that I've read my first post again and have worked on it more. It is the ac compressor that runs as soon as its plugged back in, and will not shut off.
With that said I guess I will have to find a way to do that bypass. Then have to price out a new control panel or the whole unit...
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:10 PM   #11
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Hi Jay,

So please confirm. With the T stat system switched to “off” or all 3 wires lifted off like I described.

1. When you plug in the white AC plug on the control box up in the ceiling, does the compressor run immediately?

2. If and when the compressor runs, does the blower fan run as well? Or no the blower is not running, just the compressor? You can feel the air coming through the ducts if the fan is running.

You talked by doing the bypass, do you mean on the T stat or trying to bypass the AC unit to off to let the furnace run?

If the T stat is “off” and when you plug in the white plug on the control box the compressor starts running, then this points to a control board problem as a starter.

If you want, I have pics to help show how to bypass the AC for right now to allow the furnace interlock to be OK and then use just the furnace while you wait for parts for the AC unit. If the T stat has issues, then it may not run the furnace either. But the furnace is simpler. It just needs to close the 2 furnace wires is it will run if the AC interlock is not holding it out.

I have bought that control board before. I’ll have to look it up tonight. You can order them from PPL in Texas or somewhere local. And if you need a new T stat, suggest upgrading to a Hunter digital ones. They cost about $20 from Wal-mart or Lumber yard. The Dometic analog is I think about $40 something and still not a great regulating T stat.

The good news, your compressor works! That is the real expensize part to replace.

John
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:28 PM   #12
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If the tstat is off and I plug in the ac unit the compressor runs instantly and does t shut off no matter what I do at the stat. No air is coming out at that point. If I turn it on at the stat then air will flow.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:59 PM   #13
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Yes the by pass would be great! I did pick up a new tstat that is not the issue
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
If the tstat is off and I plug in the ac unit the compressor runs instantly and does t shut off no matter what I do at the stat. No air is coming out at that point. If I turn it on at the stat then air will flow.
Jay, This for sure points to the control board. The board itself may have an issue or the compressor relay on the board is welded closed.

Here is a place to help you on both the AC unit and the furnace. Down load the service manual for the AC unit and the furnace. Scroll down, there is a bunch of them there.

Northwest RV Supply

Now to the board. See this pic progression. That entire control box does come out. Turn off the 120 VAC breaker to the AC unit and pull the 12 volt fuse that feeds the AC unit or unhook the battery so all power is off the AC system. It uses both 12 VDC control power and 120VAC to run the roof unit.

Starts like this


Then this


Then like this. Notice the blue and white stripped wires in the top left of the pic. Those should be the furnace interlock wires.


And here is the board up close. New one next to old one.


The new one. See it says T3 and T4 Furnace in the top left. What ever 2 wires are on T3 and T4 is the furnace interlock


I am not 100% sure, but 95% sure that black relay next to those 2 furnace spades is the interlock relay. When the AC is on, a set of NC contacts opens up and breaks the feed from those 2 wires to the furnace shutting the furnace down. That way you are not trying to heat and cool at the same time and create furnace havoc. My spare board is out in the camper and it's late so I cannot trace the circuit.

Pull those 2 furnace wires off and and use a spad connector on a wire to jump both wires to together. That will make the circuit and should allow the furnace to operate off the T stat. I cannot find those 2 wires anywhere in a Hydroflame wring diagram. Those 2 wires are in either the 12 volt power feed to the furnace or in series with the T stat to the furnace. The wires size seems too small for the main power feed so odds are higher they are in the T stat signal to the furnace.

To kill the AC board, pull that 3 amp purple fuse out. You might get lucky and by pulling that 3 amp fuse it might drop out the furnace relay if the board itself is telling the relay to turn on. Leave the 120VAC breaker off to the AC unit until you are ready to put a new board in. If the 3 amp fuse does not kill the board power, it should but may not, there are the black wires that plug into "Con 3" on the PC board next to the fuse and next to the yellow romex cable in my pic that is the 12 VDC to the broad. See the wiring diag below. Pulling the 12 volts off the board and the 120VAC at the breaker is as dead as you can make it.

You can now start trouble shooting the furnace. The hope is the furnace will now fire right off once the interlock is bypassed.

For parts, here is one place. It has exploded diagrams you can zoom down in. I have bought from them and had a good experience. go to the Online parts catalog. RV Air Conditioner Parts for Sale - PPL Motor Homes

Going into the part catalog should take you here. To the RV Dealership site. The link does work or does on mine.
InvalidBrowser

Under "search by" category select air conditioners. Then drill down to the make and model you have. Odds are high there has been control board upgrades since yours was made. You may end up having to call PPL to confirm that your serial number uses the correct Control kit.

If you have a local RV dealer that can get Dometic parts, they may be an option as well.

Hope this helps. We are camping this weekend so I may not be back on line until Sunday. Others here can help on this too.

Good luck

John

PS here is the wiring diagram for the control board. Others may be able to help seeing this. We have several here who can read these.

Here is a link to a larger pic/higher res. This is too big for the forum. You can read the color codes off it better
Dometic AC unit :: ControlboarddiagramFS.jpg picture by JBarca - Photobucket

Here is lower res ones





Here is the roof unit
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:19 AM   #15
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Thanks for all that! I have it that far apart just from playing with it last night. So when I get out of work today I'll jump those two wires (I thought about it lol).
I'll do an update later tonight or tomorrow on how I make out.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:21 AM   #16
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Found out what the problem was.. It was a lizard above the control board and fries the board.. Ordered a new one!
Thank you guys for all the Help!
Thanks,
Jay
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:18 PM   #17
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Good, you found the problem.

I must say, the exact cause by your description has me wonder if you mean this literally or figuratively? Which is it? This has seemed to zoom about 10 feet over my head....LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
It was a lizard above the control board and fries the board..
Did the furnace work with the interlock jumper together?

John
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:20 PM   #18
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He meant it literally!
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:24 PM   #19
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Lol yea. He was a little crispy.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:29 PM   #20
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You already picked it clean?

Did you find how he got in there? An open knockout maybe?
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