2001 Advancer 21A Floor Framing question.. - Page 2

Draughty · 07-01-2017, 03:46 PM

Gotta love Amazon...just ordered 100' of Butyl tape, a roll of vinyl seam cover, and a moisture meter. All without leaving the trailer...[emoji2]

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Draughty · 07-01-2017, 04:02 PM

Thanks John!
Yes you are close I believe the sandwich is actually 2 layers of luaun under and a 2" foam core with 1 layer of 1/8 on top. And yes the aluminum frame was placed inside when they laid up the whole panel.
I am not absolutely certain yet it may be 1 layer top and bottom.. still working through it...

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Draughty · 07-03-2017, 12:38 PM

Placed a 2x8 under the sill and on top of 1/8 aluminum strips that are supporting on either side of the repair.
I was able to bolt one side to the frame and the other I will screw into the aluminum framing from below. I am also adding an angle to this side of the aluminum tubing to support the floor panels there. Now a piece of plywood a chunk of foam a lot of industrial construction glue and this patch should be as good as new.. maybe even better...

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**JohnB** · 07-03-2017, 05:08 PM

Your off to a good start. Nice looking aluminum stock you have there.

Did you locate the source where the water came in?

Draughty · 07-03-2017, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Your off to a good start. Nice looking aluminum stock you have there.

Did you locate the source where the water came in?

We have had a deluge this week to the point I kind of thought we should have bought an ark...

In all that rain the only new moisture came from the front corner where I covered it and none since I covered that spot.
I am going to treat the whole perimeter where the roof meets the siding.
Except for the knee wall under the front window there isn't any wooden framing I can find in the walls. Doesn't mean there isn't some wood but at least not framing of that I am very happy!
In all likelihood I will eventually need to lift the vinyl sheet siding in places but for now I am mostly concerned with getting it dried in and waterproof then I will tackle the rest as I can. Depending on how firm the floor is when I finish I may wind up adding some treated framing between the lateral frame rails under the walkway. I think once I finish it will be stiff enough without that however.
Yeah I was able to get some 'drop off 'bottom' from fabrication jobs at work. We had a serious surplus of 1/8 plate and short pieces of angle and square tubing. We do a lot of small certified platforms and stairs so the cutoffs/dropoffs can be overwhelming at times and we did a small house cleaning this week much to my delight!
I have enough plate to cover a significant portion of the square footage that gets the most traffic and when the Pergo style click together floor is laid east west over the 1/4 ply and 1/8 aluminum plate I am expecting solid floor.. I have designed it much like the original system with some additional parts to compensate for some current deficiencies. Or what I see as definciencies anyway..you know us mechanical designers never leave it alone if it can be improved!

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**JohnB** · 07-05-2017, 11:48 AM

Good deal. Yes, it takes time to do these things, need to come back at it as time allows.

The moisture meter should help you sort out where water is or is not as you work through this.

Thanks

John

Draughty · 07-05-2017, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Good deal. Yes, it takes time to do these things, need to come back at it as time allows.

The moisture meter should help you sort out where water is or is not as you work through this.

Thanks

John

Yeah that's kinda what I am thinking..did a bunch of cleaning and going up to apply some repair tape.. likely the only repair that may work as previous owners have used Silicone so 4 inch wide tape will span the caulk lines.
It is a separation at the front seam between roofing and vinyl front wall covering that is the biggest major offender... getting a solid patch on tonight as a big T-storm is due tomorrow morning!
Pictures as I can..

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**JohnB** · 07-05-2017, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draughty

Y
It is a separation at the front seam between roofing and vinyl front wall covering that is the biggest major offender...

Ah, the classic camper water infection location. The front or rear roof seam. While they are not the only place water can get it, it is for sure a popular one and raises great havoc when they do. The has to go somewhere, it heads down, down and more down until is can't get out. If that has been leaking a while, the ceiling and rafters may have some work for a future project.

I'm surprised you have not seen any fiberglass delamination on the front siding yet. Or have you? They would be bubbles in the fiberglass where the glue gave way and the fiberglass lifted.

Hope the rains hold off and the patch holds.

John

Draughty · 07-10-2017, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Ah, the classic camper water infection location. The front or rear roof seam. While they are not the only place water can get it, it is for sure a popular one and raises great havoc when they do. The has to go somewhere, it heads down, down and more down until is can't get out. If that has been leaking a while, the ceiling and rafters may have some work for a future project.

I'm surprised you have not seen any fiberglass delamination on the front siding yet. Or have you? They would be bubbles in the fiberglass where the glue gave way and the fiberglass lifted.

Hope the rains hold off and the patch holds.

John

I am out of town visiting grandchildren all week so since I got the leak well under control with the repair tape now I will be able to check some other possible needs for future. Yes there is some siding delamination but hoping I can delay that fix until next year.
I wrapped the 4" wide tape from the upper edge of the rain gutter up completely over the seam and we'll onto the roofing. Where it is currently parked is preventing us from doing the opposite side (drivers) but that and all the openings seams will be done with the same tape before winter.
The front leak has some of the roof damage you described so I am supporting and reinforcing from underneath just above the overhead cabinets in the front. Original owner apparently hit something with the front upper corner and left a pushed in portion I am getting to from inside with some thin (20 gauge I think) aluminum sheet that is about 18" wide. I can get to that upper corner from inside as I am removing the inner back wall of that overhead cabinet.
The knee wall under the front window and fold down table is being rebuilt as well. I sourced some really nice straight primed finger joint 1x2 to frame that out and will be showing how I do that as I perform that work.
The vinyl wallpaper was bubbling off in the front so we are looking into how to replace that as I had to trim it off where the wetness and bubbling stopped.
Guessing I will wind up pulling at least the front window and hatch on lower front under the jackknife couch as well as reframing under there.
Best part of a week away is time for everything to continue drying down before I resume work.
Looking at this roof leak problem I am thinking the biggest issue is the fact that the seam acts as a dam to prevent water from draining off the roof.. not a good plan at all. That is why I used the tape to enclose that whole seam..the rubber roofing should have been wrapped over the side and seamed below the gutter in my opinion..

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**JohnB** · 07-12-2017, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draughty

Looking at this roof leak problem I am thinking the biggest issue is the fact that the seam acts as a dam to prevent water from draining off the roof.. not a good plan at all. That is why I used the tape to enclose that whole seam..the rubber roofing should have been wrapped over the side and seamed below the gutter in my opinion..

The gutter rails are a short fall area in many camper brands. Those that have the issue, all use the same gutter rail.

This is how I addressed the gutter rail issue a while ago when I gave up on using the caulking as the primary sealant. It s now a secondary sealant. The vinyl screw cover is bad news too. Water gets trapped behind it and rusts the screws and then wicks water in the rusted screw holes. My final version of the E bond eliminated the vinyl strip as well on the gutter rails.
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...ics-11610.html

When you get all done rebuilding, look into the E bond treatment.

Cute grandkids.

John

Draughty · 07-13-2017, 09:01 AM

Thanks.. yeah all 13 are cute!
Glad to see I'm not the only one not using caulk up there.
I did not use the primer or eternabond so will keep an eye on the repair. I was pretty pleased with how well the brand stuck without primer however.
Liked some of the other ideas for using it as well will keep looking for places that need the extra seal!

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Draughty · 07-22-2017, 01:03 PM

Okay..back at it after a break to visit children and grandchildren..and then a couple days if laying low after I twisted my back. I'm already slow so that just didn't help! LOL...
I have found now that the Advancer Lite is definitely aluminum framing, it is an aluminum skeleton with large lauan styrofoam laminated panels to provide the rest of the structure.
All in all it's a very light and durable structure but the lauan is susceptible to delamination if wet losing significant structural integrity.
My only real leak has been the upper front corner on the door/passenger side of the trailer so damage is limited to floor and front corner.
Someday I will need to peel back the exterior vinyl and do some exterior repair but for now I am reinforcing with panels and some additional aluminum bracing under the floor between the existing steel frame members.
I will post some pictures as I go but wanted to update before I got far enough along to forget what I did! Bad enough I get most of my exercise from going back to get what I forgot..losing track of repair details is also a significant hazard I am finding!
Okay maybe it's just my tendency to need to note progress as I go from being a mechanical designer?
Just hoping someone else can benefit from my experience!
Also I received my moisture meter and am finding pretty consistently decreasing levels of moisture and very low amounts of moisture where it was totally soaked at one time! Progress!!!

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Draughty · 07-22-2017, 01:07 PM

One more note on roof seals..after about 30 hours of driving last week I observed a significant number of trailer roofs and noticed that many now do wrap over the edge to create a drip rail out from the siding as well as adding the little vinyl gutter..that is an encouraging thing to see in my book!
Also many of the roofs have more bow in them now than a few years ago.. surprising how much more you see when you know what to look for!

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**JohnB** · 07-22-2017, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draughty

One more note on roof seals..after about 30 hours of driving last week I observed a significant number of trailer roofs and noticed that many now do wrap over the edge to create a drip rail out from the siding as well as adding the little vinyl gutter..that is an encouraging thing to see in my book!
Also many of the roofs have more bow in them now than a few years ago.. surprising how much more you see when you know what to look for!

The wrap around edge seems to show up on Fifth wheels more. It takes more time to create the wrap around edge, not the rubber part but the getting the underlayment done. And this more time costs more $$$. They can charge more for a 5'er then a TT so the squeaky wheel gets the grease...

Draughty · 07-22-2017, 06:33 PM

Yeah I did notice that..some were TT's but fewer for sure...

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Draughty · 07-22-2017, 06:41 PM

I was able to get a 1x1 square tube in between frame members underneath. This and the new subfloor inside seems to be solidifying the floor. Once I have all the interior subfloor in I can add more underneath if I need to then. I hate to add too much if it isn't necessary.
Under the front window is where you can see the actual steel skeleton show through I believe it is 1 x 2 x 1/16 wall tubing. Light and strong and doubled in places.

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**JohnB** · 07-22-2017, 07:53 PM

Have you figured out yet how they bonded the outside and inside luan to the aluminum frame? Was it just a construction adhesive type of bond? Or was there a fastener in the mix?

Draughty · 07-23-2017, 07:10 AM

It is bonded with an adhesive. The foam is cut back so it fits inside the frame and the lauan laps over the aluminum and is bonded there the adhesive is somewhat waterproof but does not withstand long term soaking as has been the case in parts of this trailer.
This is why I need the additional supports and am using 1/8 aluminum plate and a layer of luaun as my subfloor up top. PL400 will be used to glue the layers together and 3M Panel Bond adhesive to adhere aluminum framing where I can't use mechanical screws or bolts. Having a load of surplus scrap strips of plate has saved me a lot of weight and thickness in rebuilding the floor! Without it I would have needed 1/2" ply minimum and probably some treated dimensional parts under the Darco instead of the aluminum tubing. I am quite blessed to work where I can get the cast-off's for this project!

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**JohnB** · 07-23-2017, 10:22 AM

OK Got it. That is what I thought on the bonding process. What you are describing is how many in the RV industry do aluminum frames and fiberglass exteriors. The glue is the mechanism for attaching things.

Thanks

John

Draughty · 07-23-2017, 12:17 PM

Yes it is..that is what I am seeing. I have yet to see if the frame is MIG or TIG welded but some parts I find are bolted. The floor panels are bolted through the panel with a large flat headed bolt in various places either under the carpet or in the storage compartments or under cabinets. Cabinets appear to be attached to the aluminum framing as well, not to mention they are also being counted on as some part of the structure. The whole unit is quite well engineered which I appreciate!

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