T-2499 Roof Design Question

[East Coast]

Are there any drawings of the roof structure that Sunline used? Or maybe someone can explain the structure used? I'm specifically interested in the front roof area where the rubber meets front siding.

Tom

[henryj]

We took a factory tour just before Sunline closed down. Hope this photo answers your questions. The tt on the far right has the rafters in place. A walk on roof was optional and few Sunliness other than toy haulers got the 3/8 plywood deck. A very thin wood product called bud board--not much stronger than cardboard and wicks water like crazy--was attached to the rafters and the rubber roof was glued to that. The result was a roof that always looked and felt a little "loose", but it was light. If you plan on working on the roof put a blanket down first and then straddle as many rafters as possible with 2X6 or 4X4 sheets of 1/2" plywood. Don't drop a corner of plywood onto the rubber as it will go right through.

If you have more questions, ask before making a mistake. There are lots of people on this forum who have worked on the roof.



This is a slide room model--second one might by a 2363, but I believe the basic stick build structure would all be the same. There should be some additional factory photos posted to the forum. Perhaps somebody else can help with a link or more info.

Henry

[East Coast]

Thanks for the reply and pic! I'm curious on the T2499 where the first roof joist is located? Is there any structural member located at the joint where the front siding meets the rubber roof? I have a sag in this area and water pools slightly when the tt is level. I have caulked the joint very well, but I know this is something I will want to properly address for the long term. This trailer is in such wonderful condition and I want to make sure that it stays that way.

[Bobo]

May find drawing of the build in a brochure. I do know that it had wooden cross members and you could not walk directly on them.

[East Coast]

Yeah, it's definitely a no walk on roof so I use an old carpet runner and a piece of plywood to span multiple roof joists when I accessed the A/C cover for cleaning and such. When I caulked the perimeter seams, I was able to access everything from a ladder.
Hopefully I can either find a drawing, pic, or someone that has replaced their roof that would have some insight. Before I go down the road of opening up the roof, I'd like to know how the area at the front roof to nose siding connection was constructed. I do have a friend that repaired the roof structure on his trailer and replaced his rubber roof with a PVC one himself, so I'll be picking his brain very soon on that process.

[henryj]

The entire roof/ceiling was prefabbed in a loft-like second floor that was open above the main assembly/build area. The roof was moved out of the loft and onto the trailers as seen in the above photo. A large roll of fiberglass was added on the main floor as a single piece and then the EPDM rubber roof--on a large "endless" roll--was pulled out of the loft and cut to length on the main floor as well.

This is the finished roof ready to be moved onto the middle tt in the above photo.



I believe this is the front edge as the rear has a crowned rafter and all other rafters are crowned. If you look at the leading edge of your roof, you'll see that it is flat and you can see the crown start with the first rafter. It looks like a 2x2--or whatever nominal size Sunline used--is on the leading edge. This would provide the surface onto which the ceiling panel would be stapled and I think is also where the metal finishing strip is screwed that holds down the leading edge of the EPDM. A stud finder should work on this roof.

The tour wasn't that long and we weren't allowed to stand in one place for any length of time so saw very little of the actual assembly of anything except for the floor being attached to the frame right at the beginning of the assembly line.

[East Coast]

Thank you for the reply and the pic! I appreciate your comments very much.

I think you are correct that at the point of the transition from the nose siding to the roof, the structure is flat and thefirst rafter going aft starts those that have a crown to them. I found this pic of a 1981 17.5 foot Sunline online as well. The actual post can be found here. This pic is not my trailer!!!http://forums.woodalls.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/25844585.cfm

I'm guessing that there may not have been major design changes through the years and amongst varies sizes and models when it comes to roof construction, so this further supports what you saw and our interpretation of the photo. Notice that the flat rafter is much smaller in size than the crowned rafters.

SO...
Let's say that I possibly only have some structural damageto the flat rafter where the nose siding and roof join... do you think it wouldbe possible to only expose that portion and make the repairs from above and reuse the existing roof? The roof membrane does have some crackling (notcracking) on the surface, but otherwise seems to be tight.

Another option...
Make repairs to the first flat rafter and lap in another section of roof material to join with the existing material, so a complete roof replacement isn't required. Then recoat the remaining roof to guarantee alonger life.

Any thoughts?

[sep]

Tom,


I'm not expert but I think you are better off with Henry's pictures than the ones you posted above because they are from an older model and design as yours. If you look at Henry's first pic where the front wall of the camper ends and the diagonal piece starts, is that where your sag is? I'm thinking that small frame is boxed off with 2X2 studs that carry the "same line" as the studs on the front wall. Go into the camper and open the two flip up cabinet doors and use a good flash light to see if you can see where the paneling was nailed to those studs(if there are studs) or use a stud finder if you have one.


If you look at Henry's picture of the roof system, that front of the box is a 2x2 stud and the first rafter doesn't start till roughly a foot in from the end of the box. I believe the front of the roof system box sits right on top of the diagonal end which would make the roof 2" taller but notice the long 2X2 strip that runs side to side on the plywood. That would make for a smooth transition from the front exterior panel into the roof covering. Wow, that is hard to explain by typing so I hope that makes sense.


Steve

[East Coast]

Whew! I read all of our comments over and over and I think we all are in agreement! Thanks so much for your input! Yes, I agree with everything that you stated Steve and also that Henry's photos are best. The combination of his pics look to me to indicate that the closest edge of the roof shown in the second pic lays at the point of the start of the diagonal slope of the nose shown in the first pic. Yes, this is my sag point, dead center of that span on that joint on the rubber membrane of the roof. It's not a terrible sag, but it will pool a small amount of water and I have caulked it very well.

Tom

[henryj]

Water leaks in the area you're looking at are not uncommon. Unfortunately--just to warn you--I don't see you being able to peel back even just 1' of EPDM unless the leak has only been there for 2 wk. Best case scenario is that there is no visible water damage on interior wall and ceiling panels. Bud board and fibreglass soak up water like a sponge and wick it far away from the point of entry. There is no air circulation in this attic and it won't dry out. I've never done a roof repair, but this thread from Gary has lots of info and photos. He still comes on from time to time and you might be able to pm him. I think the worst case scenario for which you should prepare--and this means lots of time and indoor workspace--is to remove the gutters and screw strips on both sides of the roof, remove the front vent and peel back about 1/3 of the EPDM. What you'll see then is anybody's guess.

Removing the gutters and screw strips from the side of the tt is a good idea anyway as all those screws into wood wick water in as well and are a source of rot. Same with the awning screws. If all is well here, a good caulk around the screw and drive it again will pretty much seal it up for good.

One advantage of a stick and tin trailer is that they can be inexpensively repaired by a handy DIY'er with time and tools. An Al and fiberglass tt like the Arctic Fox we have now might be a bit more durable, but water intrusion will cause it to delaminate and the roof and floor are still wood anyway. Much more difficult to repair than stick and tin.

Start slowly and gradually, hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. Maybe you'll find something in between or look for a semi-professional repair like Gary found.

[East Coast]

Harry,
Thanks for the info on Gary's thread! I agree that a water leak can cause many unseen issues. So far there are no visual indicators from inside the tt, but I know that that doesn't mean there aren't issues. A few taps along the ceiling indicate that there has been some damage inside the front storage above the bed, but it's all holding its own so far. I've sealed the caulk joint very well and will continue to check it very regularly. No smell what so ever from inside as well.
I'll send Gary a message to find out if he can provide me the contact info for who he used. I'm a firm believer that going with good recommendations is usually better than going into something blind. Another option is my scheduled retirement in 16 months and 4 days. Doing the work myself in a short term rental storage unit might be fun. I really don't anticipate a widespread water issue, but I do anticipate having to replace the initial support member and possibly the first arched support member, along with some bud board and insulation. Everything could be done from the top and it might be a good time to do a roof membrane replacement. I have a friend who did his 5th wheel roof replacement along with multiple arched rafters all from the top. According to him, it wasn't that bad of a job, but covering and uncovering it every day was a real pain. Thanks again for all of the comments, this site and you folks have a wealth of knowledge and so far I'm enjoying this new learning curve greatly!

[Poppy & Nana]

The guy you were asking about, is Roger Miller. His phone number is 540-858-3101.

[East Coast]

Awesome, thank you!
I love this group!

Tom