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Old 06-24-2008, 01:34 PM   #1
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Sunny has been weighed

Well, I have finally got everything weighed (with a big thanks to JohnB for the tongue weighing)

'05 F350PSD, 8400#'s (two adults, the dogs and full fuel)
'06 T-2499, 6540 #'s (with full fresh water, empty black & gray tanks)
(tongue weight 1175#'s, axle weight 5365 #'s )

Total weight rolling down the road: 14940 #'s

With my truck I have a lot of room to get a bigger Sunline, in fact I know where there are (2) 5th wheels, but I'm sticking with my custom 2499.

Kitty
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:50 PM   #2
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Kitty. Good for you. Now you know.

A few other tid bits of info from your data. Im assuming you had the WD bars on when you where weighed.

Knowing your TT floor plan and your tongue weight, about 200# of TT axle load came from the WD effect when the WD bars are engaged. So your axles loads are actually 5,365# - 200# = 5,165# unhitched.

And 5,165# axles + 1,175# tongue = 6340# GVW unhitched.

A 1,175# tongue on a 6,340# GVW TT is (1,175/6340) = 18.5% tongue weight with full fresh water. That rear living area camper just plain loads to the front.

I have also found on the T2499 that full fresh water adds 200# to the tongue.

Other tid bits. Sunline designs the TT GVWR on the smallest component. The T2499 has a GVWR of 7,000# and the axles are the limiting factor. Since you have 5,365# of weight on a 7,000# rated axle setup you are in good shape on axles and tires.

And you can see by your numbers the way your T2499 is loaded with full fresh water a TV will need to have to handle just about 1,200# of payload after all the people are in it. Or 1,000# of payload if they do not haul fresh water.

Your truck I thought was rated at 21,000 GCWR like mine. Since you are pulling a combined weight of 14,940# you have lot of room for hills and extra stuff in the truck.

PS to other T2499 owners, Kitty has a very cool generator built into her front cargo compartment. This adds to her tongue weight.

I did tongue weigh another T2499 from a fellow forum member in mid May of this year on a 2004 and his was only 1,000# with partial fresh water. My T2499 however was 1,200# with no fresh water and 1,400# with fresh water. Everyone has different stuff and adds up different.

Thanks

John
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Old 06-25-2008, 02:50 PM   #3
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Hi John,

Think I should explain the weighing of Sunny.

Truck was weighed solo, 8400#'s

You weighed tongue, 1175#'s (with full fresh water, empty black & gray)

Then I ran the truck & trailer hitched up over a certified quarry scale for a total of 14940 #'s. (not a segmented scale)

So, since I weighed it this way did that change my axle weights ?

Sorry for the extra questions, trying to learn

Kitty

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Old 06-25-2008, 10:31 PM   #4
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Kitty

OH. Well OK

The truck is just the truck. But the Gross combined weight is still real of 14,940#

And since you where hitched and the WD engaged, then the loaded rolling down the road your TT weight is 14,940 8,400 = 6,540# just like you said but with the WD engaged. So yes we agree the TT weighs 6,540# all on its own because we subtracted the truck when it was solo.

And knowing the tongue weight being separate at 1,175# then yes unhitched, the TT axles would scale at 6540 1175 = 5365# and we both agree here.

BUT knowing your TT layout from mine, 200# of truck rear axle weight does get transferred to the TT axle from the TV rear axle unloading of WD. So if you actually rolled on a segmented scale with WD engaged the TT axle would weigh 5,365 + 200 = 5, 565#. Basically the TT took on 200# added weight from the WD hitch effects of transferring weight around to different axles.

And if you actually where on a 3 stage semi scale like at Pilot or Travel America, then all 3 axles sets still add up to 14,940#, just the split of weights on the axles is slightly different when the WD is engaged

OH and do not think you are asking too many questions. Ask your heart out. Any time.

If I have confused you, let me know, I'll explain differently.

PS, Im away for work today, but I too did weigh my F350 solo with Cindy and I in it the day we got it. Ill have to compare the V10 to the Diesel on weight. I know mine was not that heavy. Somewhere in the 7,600 - 7800# ish range. Have weight slip at home.

John
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR - Fern Blue, 2004 T1950 - Fern Blue, 2004 T2475 - Nutmeg
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Old 06-26-2008, 04:16 PM   #5
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Truck weight sounds about right. When I weighed my F-250 it was #8300
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:49 PM   #6
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Kitty

Ok I have the weigh slip.

A 2005, F350, V10, CC, short bed, 4 x 4 Lariat with FX4 package with Cindy and I in it and full tank of gas:

GVW = 7,700#

Front axle: 4460#
Rear axle: 3240#

About the only big difference between your truck and mine is the engine.

Since I was home I pulled out my 2005 Ford SD source book.

The 6.0 PSD PU in our configuration less options has a curb weight of 7,214# with manual tranny.

The 6.7 V10 PU in our configuration less options has a curb weight of 6,705# with manual tranny.

Both stock trucks the gas verses diesel is 509# adder. So if I added 509# to my 7,700# GVW that would be 8,209# to your 8,400#. Hmm do you have about 200# of stuff in the truck bed?

John
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR - Fern Blue, 2004 T1950 - Fern Blue, 2004 T2475 - Nutmeg
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:02 AM   #7
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Hi John,

I have that diamond plate across the bed tool box, had 3 empty 5gal diesel cans, and maybe 10 pieces of very dry fire wood. The only options that I know of that my truck is missing is the ambulance pkg and the snow plow pkg. And the truck bed /tailgate is "Line-X'd"
I weighted on a certified quarry scale so I don't have individual axle weights.

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Old 07-30-2008, 07:24 PM   #8
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Hi folks...

I am a new to this forum. I think I made a big mistake....I purchased a 2004 sunline 2499 and towed it for the weekend. I have an 06 Nissan Pathfinder. I bought the trailer from a dealer. I was told the tongue weight was 450 lbs and the trailer was 4600 lbs. I think I was misled???? I purchsed the weight distribution and brake system but my truck still sags in the rear. I am concerned that I have totally over exceeded my limit. Do I have recourse with the dealer? it is actually back at the dealer because I found leaks during my first outing three days after purchase.

If you could help me I would be very thankful

Tami
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:36 PM   #9
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From what I have found the trailer weight you were told seems correct and the web search I did your Pathfinder is rated to tow 6000 LBS. Make sure that you set up the weight distribution correctly, if set up properly (There is a great thread about proper setup somewhere here) it still may cause your vehicle to sag a little but correct setup will cause even sag front to back.

BTW where in Mass, there are several others around this state.
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:40 PM   #10
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campsnoopy
hey ghettomedic...

I live in Brockton.

I am reading here that the tongue weight of the 2499 exceeds 600 lbs. Which is the limit for the pathfinder....does the weight distribution hitch change that number? I feel like the front wheels are lifting off the ground. I have the WD bars on the 5th link from the bottom...not sure if that is right or not. the dealer set it up
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:29 PM   #11
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Campsnoopy

First off welcome to the forum. Glad to have you with us and we are glad to help you.

I happen to own a 2004 T2499. A great TT and floor plan.

Your dealer has made an error. I have confirmed by both truck scale, Sherline Tongue scale and written documentation from Sunline that my VIN number 2004 T2499 had a dry unloaded tongue weight of 680# the day it rolled out of the factory. The weight goes up from this point once you add a battery, propane and camping gear.

My TT has aluminum sides and no walk on roof. If yours has fiberglass smooth siding and a walk on roof option, then yourswill weigh more out of the factory. Even the 2004 catalog lists a 755# dry tongue with a 4,785# GVW unloaded. See here: http://www.sunlineclub.com/docs/05sol.pdf That is a 2005 brochure as the 2004 is not posted in our files section. Do not use the 2003 version as that year the weights where different. My 2004 brochure matches the 2005.

See this cut and paste from an email dated June 5, 2005 from the Director of New Product development at Sunline when I wrote to them about T2499 tongue weight.

Dear John:

I have a feeling your method may be a bit off. We weigh trailers periodically throughout the model year. In the 2004 Model Year we weighed a 2499 model twice.

Both trailers were very close in weight. We weigh a base model in both the dry and wet mode. Let me explain, the dry mode is without any water, battery, or propane in the trailer. The wet mode is with a battery installed, full propane tanks and full fresh water tank(nothing in the gray or black tanks).

In the dry mode the trailer weighed 4788 lbs including a hitch weight of 680 lbs. In the wet mode the trailer weighed 5165 lbs including a hitch weight of 895 lbs.

According to our records your trailer had the following factory installed options:
4 Leveling Jacks
Mounted spare tire kit

These options only add about 120 lbs to the total weight of the trailer. I would say the hitch weight when the unit left the factory was in the range of 680 lbs.

I would try going to a scale and getting the attendant to let you weigh you truck alone and then hitch the trailer to the truck without the equalizing bars and pull just the truck onto the scale and get a weight that way.


It is very common for that floor plan loaded with camping gear to have a 900 to 1,000# tongue weight with no fresh water. If you have more stuff inside, especially in the front cargo hole, under the bed or in the bed room close, it can approach 1,200#. Still no fresh water. Expect a loaded GVW that can be in the 5,900 to upwards of 6,200# pending your amount of stuff in the TT. Mine when loaded with fresh water was 6,800# but I carry a lot of stuff. Others carry less.

You are, and I was, once in a similar situation. However you have it worse then I did. That 2004 T2499 is one great TT. In our case we had these 2 options:

1. Strip my ton SUV bare of gear inside as well as not carry very much gear in the front cargo hole.

2. Upgrade the TV to handle the loaded camper.

In our case we loved the TT way too much and had to change the TV. We traded a bought new 2002 TV for a used 2003 TV with the right towing setup. The new to us TV was a 2003 2500 Suburban, 6.0V8 with a 4.10 rear axle. I then had no issues towing that TT fully loaded. There are other TV's that can handle this TT too, not only the 2500 Suburan.

To your question on WD, WDs job is to off load the rear axle of the TV form the overhung load of a TT ball hanging some 65 inches behind the TV rear axle and to return the TV front end to unhitched weight. While WD does remove some of the TT tongue weight from the TV GVW when properly adjusted, for planning figure that the truck will have to carry the full tongue weight. WD will not cure a TV rear axle overloading problem or a TV that is over the GVWR or GCWR..

Now what do you do? First we are here to help what we can.

I looked up a 2006 Pathfinder. See this site and tell us what you have http://www.nissanhelp.com/Models/200...ifications.htm

Is yours the V6 4.0 liter?

Is it 4 x 4 or 4 x 2?

Is it the S, SE, OR or LE trim package?

Look on your driver door sticker and look for front and rear axle ratings?

How many pounds of people and pets are inside the TV when you go camping?

I can tell you are going to be very close to if not over your trucks ability from a weight stand point. The 4.0 liter engine, if that is what you will have, will struggle once you load the camper.

I do not want to scare you to death with all the numbers but being friendly camper friend trying to help. You are going to have issues long term.

If you give us the answers to the questions above we can help show how good or not good you are going to be to start with. There is more from there but your thoughts of beening too much TT are most likely valid.

To the dealer, this one depends on there creditability. The sale is sold and they may not have to legally take back the TT. Depends maybe on how the Bill of Sale was written and your state. If you truly love the camper, a used upgraded TV may be an option.

Good luck and let us know how we can help.

John
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:52 AM   #12
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The '04 TT brochure is there, just not listed.

http://www.sunlineclub.com/docs/04.pdf

Jon
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Old 07-31-2008, 03:15 PM   #13
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Hi Tami! Welcome to the forum!
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:52 AM   #14
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Hi Folks,

Sorry I have not responded...my computer has been down.

I went to the dealer regarding the problem and they weighed the trailer....as you all said...755 dry. She initially agreed to refund my money and then changed her mind...so I have a lawyer and i am moving forward in that manner. According to the purchase and sale I have 20 days to notify her of any breach of contract....selling me a trailer that exceeds the limit of my truck "according to the lawyer" is breach of contract. I will keep you all posted.

I do have the 6cyl SE pathfinder with limits of 6000lbs and 600lbs tongue weight. In the manual it states that with a wd hitch (assumingly on the trailer) I can tow 10000lbs and a tongue weight of 1000lbs. I learned according to the dealer that I have a class III weight bearing hitch and not a class III weight distribution hitch????? never heard of different class III....anyone?????
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