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Old 03-25-2009, 02:45 PM   #21
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I saw those pictures and all I can say is wow.

That battery charger thing is 100% aftermarket, someone has added that in since the regular charger in the converter probably died. Normally the Magnetek converter is a battery charger, AC/DC power converter, and distribution panel.

I suspect the battery would have to be hooked up for something to work, but then again I suppose it's possible the converter wasn't totally bad to begin with and it fried the charger, or even possibly the charger fried the converter.

That outlet inside the bench seat appears to have been added as well. Sunline never used metal junction boxes like that, and I've never seen any installed in a cabinet like that, especially that close to the floor.

Jon
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Old 03-25-2009, 07:55 PM   #22
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As a firefighter and an electrician, WOW just doesn't cover it!

OH MY GOD Is a little more like it.

I'll let JohnB try to reverse engineer this mess...

Like Jon said you definitely have an "after market" harry home owner rig, that should be replaced with a working rv charger/convertor for your own safety.
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Old 03-27-2009, 08:24 AM   #23
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Keith,

Originally, your magnatek panel contained a converter housed in the lower section. It's more than likely still in there. As was said before, the built-in converter most likely died and this was somebody's work-around to that problem.

Going by the picture, someone purchased a generic battery charger, cut off the alligator clips and attached the negative lead to the negative DC distribution block on the floor. The positive lead was then attached to that white wire that runs up front to the battery.

There's a few problems with this type of setup:

- Most battery chargers are not intended to run full time or 100% duty cycle. This could lead to premature charger failure or worse.

- Most battery chargers are not designed to be used in confined spaces. There's no way to dissipate the heat, which again could mean premature failure or worse (fire).

- Your typical charger, such as the one in that picture is designed to charge a battery at one of several (in your case 2) rates. The output voltage doesn't change with these rates, instead the current is limited. This is fine for the occasional charge, like when you leave the dome light on in the car and find the battery dead, but these chargers are not intended to float a battery (in short, have it connected to a battery full time). When you are charging the occasional dead car battery, you can keep an eye on things, and remove the charger when it's done. This prevents overcharging of the battery. Overcharging the battery will cause excessive heat, excessive outgassing, water loss and shorter life.

- These battery chargers do not have regulated outputs and they are typically not filtered either. Again, this is OK for the occasional dead battery, but not really clean enough to run the gizmo's in the rig - radio, control board in the reefer, etc. This can even have an effect on the life of light bulbs.

- The way this is now wired, there is no protection (fuse, circuit breaker) on the (rather long and exposed) charge lead. With this configuration, at best a short leads to a melted wire, or ruined battery charger. At worst, it's the cause of a fire in the rig.

If you are seeing some output from the battery charger (even a few tenths of a volt), it is quite possible that it will not "power on" until it "sees" a battery connected.

Anyway, if this was my rig, I'd be "fixing" this immediately. I would first recommend removing the add-on charger and the additional DC wiring. Then I would go-back to using a proper, on-board RV converter.

I took a look around and found a couple different options available to do that. I'll include links and prices from bestconverter.com. I have no affiliation with them and in fact I've never purchased from them. I have heard other members mention they purchased from them.

The first is a complete replacement converter assembly for your Magnatek panel. It will upgrade you to 3-stage charging (which is much easier on the battery, leading to greatly extended life). The kit also comes with a replacement DC fuse block. That kit is listed at $215 (http://www.bestconverter.com/45-Amp-...-Kit_p_46.html).

A second option would be to use one of the converters from Progressive Dynamics. A lot of people like these, and their "charge wizard" feature. I *think* the PD4635 would be the correct model to use with your panel. That runs $229 (http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4635-...on_p_350.html#).

The third option I see, and most likely the one I would choose, is to replace the entire assembly. You can purchase a complete WFCO 8935 panel (I have one in my coach) for $160 (http://www.bestconverter.com/WFCO-89...Amp-_p_51.html). This would give you a brand new panel, including a 35 A converter with 3 stage charging. If you were to change to this panel you would most likely need to purchase a few AC circuit breakers to go in it. I believe the WFCO panels use Square D breakers, which are readily available (and pretty inexpensive) at any of the big box stores.


Regardless of how you proceed with this, you're going to need to be comfortable working with electricity and wiring.

- Frank
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Old 03-27-2009, 09:25 AM   #24
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Frank (and everybody else)

Thank you so much for the very detailed reply. Those sources will come in handy if I do proceed to replace it myself. I "should" be able to handle the replacement since I have some experience with electricity. I'm a physics teacher and ironically, today my students are taking a test on DC circuits

My first option is to go to the "reputable" dealer I purchased the trailer from. I'm going to explain how I don't think its honest or safe that he sold me the trailer in that condition. If they absolutely refuse to help me out in any way, then I'll be on my own...

There are two large RV dealers in my area. I went to the other one yesterday to get their take on my frankenstein wiring. They laughed at how their competition allowed this trailer to be sold to me...

Thanks again. I'll post an update early next week when I speak to the dealer.
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Old 03-27-2009, 09:19 PM   #25
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No problem at all. Glad we can be of assistance.

If you get stuck, feel free to post back. If you are really stuck, you're only about an hour away from me.

- Frank
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Old 03-28-2009, 03:21 PM   #26
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WOW!!! Definately a safety hazzard. Those pics would give the nice folks at the RVIA a heart attack. I hope the dealer where you bought the trailer missed this mess. If they knew about this and still sold it to you in that condition, shame on them. I hope they make it right for you.
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:22 PM   #27
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I spoke extensively to the dealer where I purchased my trailer at, and they weren't in a very generous mood I spoke to both the service and general managers.

They said they had no idea my trailer had the frankenstein wiring. Because I bought it on auction there and they took no responsibility for, or knowledge of its condition. They also didn't seem to care that I was worried it was a safety concern. They also didn't care that I said I wouldn't be patronizing their business anymore if they couldn't help me out They did say it would be bad business practices for them to fix it?!?! I guess since I purchased it for a low price they didn't want to lower their profit margin at all. However now I'm angry and won't be buying anything from them!

The only assistance I could get from that was a pricematch for the online price of a new converter. Of course they wouldn't budge on the $100/hr labor cost.

Overall, I was pretty irritated on the way home. I'll be selecting a new one to buy and install myself.

I think I will go with the option that Frank suggested:
a complete new WFCO panel
http://www.bestconverter.com/WFCO-8935-ANP-35-Amp-_p_51.html[/url]
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:58 PM   #28
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I think I know which dealer you're talking about, and from what experiences other members here have had with them, I'm quite surprised.

Hopefully the job will be relatively straight forward.

Jon
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Old 03-30-2009, 08:11 PM   #29
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Sorry they're not too willing to help you out. They're loss, they will lose out on some word-of-mouth business worth way more than a $100 panel.

Like I had said before, if you get stuck, don't be afraid to give a yell. We'll do what we can to help.

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Old 03-30-2009, 08:22 PM   #30
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Sorry your dealer dealt you a set of real bad cards. They said it would be bad business practice for them to fix it??? OK, that sums up a lot about them.

There are several of us who have been thru these and if you know 120 VAC home wiring practices this is not complex.

If you get hung up, post a pic and we can help point you where to go looking or what to do with that particular wire. Plus you now have a 3 stage charger which is light years ahead of the original and even the one from the Munsters family basement your prior owner installed. Your battery will be very happy because of this and so will you.

Good luck

John
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:58 PM   #31
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I have my replacement power converter and panel. I got the correct breakers for it. I labeled every wire in my existing setup for identification. I’ve studied the wiring but still have a couple of small questions that I need clarification with:

1. In the front view diagram, the pin terminal of the black wire says to connect to breaker no.1. Does this mean the 30A main breaker? I assume the other black wire part goes to breaker 2 which is the first individual breaker?

2. I was going to use the wire that previous went to my aftermarket power converter to now connect to the – battery terminal. It is a 10 gauge wire. Is that sufficient in size or should I run another. The + wire from the battery is an 8.

3. Currently, the only wire from my battery – terminal is to the ground/trailer frame. Should I keep that one when I have a connection from the – to the power converter?

4. If you look through the old pictures of my aftermarket setup, you’ll see there is a metal outlet box that the power converter was plugged into. I won’t be using this outlet, but should I remove it?

Thanks again for the help.
Keith




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Old 04-15-2009, 07:20 PM   #32
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Keith,

I'm not sure which model you picked up, but I grabbed the manual off the WFCO site for the 8900 Series. It seems like the image you linked here might be a misprint. If you are concerned, you might want to give WFCO a call.

My thoughts inline below..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkeduda
I have my replacement power converter and panel. I got the correct breakers for it. I labeled every wire in my existing setup for identification. I’ve studied the wiring but still have a couple of small questions that I need clarification with:

1. In the front view diagram, the pin terminal of the black wire says to connect to breaker no.1. Does this mean the 30A main breaker? I assume the other black wire part goes to breaker 2 which is the first individual breaker?
In the 8900 manual (http://www.wfcoelectronics.com/docum...%20English.pdf), it states to connect the pin terminal on the black wire to a breaker. Then, it states the black pigtail is "available for a branch circuit." This makes MUCH more sense than the diagram you have there, which would effectively bypass a breaker if you wired it as stated.

What I would do is as follows:

Use the upper most position as the "main" breaker - the shore power cable hot lead connects here. Connect nothing else to this breaker.

Use the next position down as the feed to the converter's supply. I'd connect that pin terminal here. If needed, I'd connect a branch circuit to that black pigtail, but I would most likely just cap it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkeduda
2. I was going to use the wire that previous went to my aftermarket power converter to now connect to the – battery terminal. It is a 10 gauge wire. Is that sufficient in size or should I run another. The + wire from the battery is an 8.
There *should* have been a stock 8 AWG cable into your old converter that would have run back from the battery. It may have made a pitstop along the way (for instance, in my 2363, it stops in a junction box under the front couch which contains a 30A self-resetting circuit breaker and some other connections). If that wire is there, use it.

If not, the 10 would be "ok" for charge currents up to about 30A, but you would see some voltage drop in the run. I'd like to see an 8 AWG cable there as a minimum on a 30A charge circuit. Bigger is better, less voltage drop and resultant heating of the conductor..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkeduda
3. Currently, the only wire from my battery – terminal is to the ground/trailer frame. Should I keep that one when I have a connection from the – to the power converter?
There should be a cable running from the negative battery post to the trailer frame, 8 AWG would be sufficent in this application. You do not need to home run a negative cable from the converter to the battery. The converter can be connected to the frame as well at a convenient location. There was likely a solid, bare conductor (or, perhaps a white 8 AWG cable) in your old converter used for this purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkeduda
4. If you look through the old pictures of my aftermarket setup, you’ll see there is a metal outlet box that the power converter was plugged into. I won’t be using this outlet, but should I remove it?
Your call on that one. I would probably remove it, just to make sure nobody tries to power anything up in the enclosed space.

Hope this helps you out.

- Frank
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:27 AM   #33
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Just a final report. I installed my replacement converter box and everything seems to work fine. The installation was pretty easy too.

Thanks again to everyone that offered advice.
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:54 PM   #34
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Good to hear, Keith!

Now, where you going for the first trip?
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