Grey Water Indicator

Tom39 · 10-10-2012, 01:43 PM

Hello All,
Well the prior owners left me with a big surprise. The Black water tank was 2/3 full. My goodness did that thing stink. The good thing is that at the end of my drive is my sewer cleanout and away it went. A bit of bleach and 3 fills and dumps the tank is clean.

Well that led me to check the other tanks to make sure that there was nothing in them. Well the grey water and the fresh water were all but empty and after a grey tank fill and dump, a fresh water fill and dump and then a city hook up all systems are in working order except one thing.
I do not have a readout for the fluid level of the grey water tank. When I push the button nothing happens. Not one of the level indicator lights light up. I have checked and cleaned all 4 of the connections at the tank including the ground. I am not sure how that system works so I thought I would ask.

Has anyone had any issues like this before? If so any help would be appreciated.

Thank you for looking,
Tom G.

**JohnB** · 10-12-2012, 11:25 AM

Hi Tom, I saw your other post so now I/we know what you have as far as tank monitor.

http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1402&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1 349908073

That is a KIB tank monitor panel. Down at the tanks are 4 probes in the tank, a ground wire and then the probes go to a red resistor network. The probes as they are covered by water change the resistance. The monitor panel up in the camper reads the resistance change and then turns on the correct light when you select that tank.

If you get no lights at all: Some places to look

1. The ground at the tank is no good. Clean that up.
2. The scum in your gray tank is so bad the probes will not even make conduct electricity.
3. On the back of the monitor panel one of the wires fell off for the gray tank. Mine are wire nutted to the panel.
4. The wire that goes up through the floor is pulled apart. To check run a real long wire from outside, hook to the upstream side of the red resistor pack, then go inside and wire nut in on that tank input point. This was the only way I could find out why my fresh tank was on full all the time when it was empty. The wire up through the floor got skinned and grounded out on the frame.

I thought I had a post about this, but I cannot find it but I have the pics.... See here for the pics

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/T310SR%20Camper%20Upgrades/Tank%20Sensors/

Here is a post I found trying to find mine

http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f6...nsor-9478.html

Here is the KIB site. They have a lot of good info there. Including wiring diagrams and manuals. I think your is a M21.

http://www.kibenterprises.com/mmmm-m21vw.html

Keep clicking on their site. Many objects are hot links. There are schematics and manuals

Hope this helps

John

Tom39 · 10-17-2012, 12:32 PM

John,

I cleaned the ground and the other connections as well. Still nothing.

I popped the display out and checked the connections. Nothing as well.

I will check the continuity of the wire tomorrow night and keep you posted.

As for the scummy residue on the sensors. What do you think about putting hot water and dishwasher soap in the tank and taking it for a ride to slosh it around and clean the tank?

Thanks,
Tom G.

**JohnB** · 10-17-2012, 09:02 PM

Hi Tom,

The scum, if it is in there and that heavy it may take more to get ride of it.

I suggest this:

Happy Camper - Odorless Holding Tank Treatment Black and Grey Water

Scroll down to the extreme cleaner. It is bacteria and enzymes that will feed off the scum.

You can try the hot water and Dawn trick, It will do something, just do not know how much.

If the wire checks out OK, then go to radio shacks and get a resistor and hot wire it upstream of the red resistor pack. You can then tell if the display is OK or it is on the tank. You can also use an ohm meter on the resistor pack and make sure it still works as a resistor and not and open circuit.

KIB stated not to short the probes direct but to use a resistor or stick a ground wire and a tank probe wire in a bucket of water and use that resistance.

At this point you do not know if it is the wire, the display or the tank scum. Once you know the wire is good, then try the resistor or water bucket test to see if the display is good and the red resistor pack is good.

Good luck

John

Tom39 · 10-19-2012, 12:57 PM

Well,
The mystery is solved. Not completely fixed but solved.
I went on the KIB site and downloaded their trouble shooting guide. I went through all the steps and pinpointed that my board was indeed bad.
http://www.kibenterprises.com/troubleshoot/m_panel.pdf

Then I ended up calling KIB Electronics (1-800-250-7071) and spoke with a tech named Steve about my problem. (BTW: those guys are AWESOME) I relayed all the things that I had checked and also that I had pulled the board and was getting odd readings at the button for the grey water tank. His immediate response was that the board was bad and that it needed to be replaced or if I had a soldering iron he could help me fix it. Well I am all for fixing anything. It is one of the things I live for. After about 2 min with a ohm meter the issue was found.

It turns out that one of the common problems if it is the board is a dirty switch or a bad diode. Mine had a bad diode. I posted a few pic's of the board to illustrate. But here are the instruction that I was given by the Tech to try and track down my problem.

1st - Pop the panel from the wall mount.

2nd - Disconnect the pin connector from the circuit board
3rd - Carefully bend back the locking tabs to release the circuit board and lift from the panel cover.

4th - Lie the board down with the pin connectors pointing towards you and the LED lights at top of the board.

5th - Locate what switch is bad and look directly above the switch at the components soldered into the board. (In my case it is the switch to the far right) The second component is a diode (pn#1N4739A), if the diode is bad then the reading will be 0.00 ohms in both directions.

6th - If the reading is 0.00 ohms then it is an indicator that the diode is bad and needs to be replaced. To check to see if this is the case, cut or DE solder one of the posts, plug the unit in to the pin connector and press the button. If the light lights up then problem solved.

7th -If removing the diode for the scenario did not work, solder back in place and then solder and jumper wire to the 2 posts of the switch and plug it in. If the lights light up then it is the switch.

If you notice in the pics that the one board had the Diode cut but installed and the other pic has the diode removed. I added these so you have an idea of what I was speaking of.
Now I am off to Radio Shack to get me a diode. I will let you all know how things go.
Thanks for all your help,
TOM G.

Tom39 · 10-19-2012, 09:13 PM

Well,

It works!!!

The orginial diode was a 1N4739A but as you can imagine that is not the most common electronic part one can find. I did find one online but the supplier was located in, you guessed it, China. Well I know enough to know that I am not going to give my credit card info to someone in china, to buy a part that costs a $1, who knows what is going to happen. Plus a new board is only $17 from KIB.
So back to Radio Shack I go and pick up the closest one in value I could find. It was a 1N4007 and came in a plenty pack of 25 for $3. I bent, cut it to size and soldered it into place. Put it back in the face plate and plugged it in pusshed the button and the empty light lit. I started filing the tank with the garden hose and low and behold the unit is fixed.

Thank you JohnB for all of the suggestions and the link to the KIB site. That really got the ball rolling on my end and got me up and running for $3. I owe you one. I also checked on that Happy Campers tank treatment, you suggested and read a bunch of reviews on it. It looked like great stuff so I went and bought a tub of it to try.

TOM G.

**JohnB** · 10-21-2012, 07:50 PM

Tom,

Great news! and thanks for posting. So far this is the 1st how to fix a KIB board post that I can recall. Congrats and good work.

Radio Shack is not like it use to be. You use to be able to buy most any solid state component in there. Then slowly it started to deplete itself one the programmable world took over. Lack of sales I'm sure is the reason, a lot of inventory on parts to sell $1 worth of parts.

As FYI, these guys use to be one of our Go To places for this kind of electronic things. Have not bought from them in lots of years. Surprised the name still truned up a hit,
Newark | US - Electronic Components Distributor | Electronic Parts Distributor

Thanks for posting back and the pics!

John

Gene · 10-22-2012, 07:34 PM

Nice job on the board fix. I noticed that the 1N4739A is a 9.1 volt Zener diode but the 1N4007 is a regular diode but if it works that is the most important thing.

Another supplier is DigiKey, DigiKey Corporation - Electronic Component Distributor , but like Newark they like to sell by the thousand.

Tom39 · 10-22-2012, 08:10 PM

Gene,

I was surprised that it worked too. But like you said, I looked on line but everyone wants to sell everything in bulk and I don't blame them. I even pulled diodes out of broken TV’s and pc power supplies and any random board I could find. The numbers are just too specific of a use. I figured that I did not have anything to lose and if I fried it, it was only $17 to replace it from KIB.

So I guess the saying is true: “Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while”

Thanks
TOM G.

Torskdoc423 · 03-16-2020, 08:24 AM

Reviving this Necrothread.

On-SEMI 512-1N5239B is 9.1V 0.5W Zener. $0.14ea @ mouser.com as of this date.

**JohnB** · 03-16-2020, 06:40 PM

HI Larry, I take it your "into" electronics?

Thanks for the mouser.com resource. https://www.mouser.com/ Good to know.

Thanks!

Torskdoc423 · 03-17-2020, 01:23 PM

Yeah. Guess you could say that. I rehab old FISHER Tube receivers, tuners, amps, consoles, as a Hobby, along with a few select 70's Pioneer, and Sansui Solid state receivers, Teac, Ampex, and Akai Tape Decks. My Crown Jewel is a 1963 FISHER Executive Model 950 Console (1 down from TOTL). 1963 Fisher Executive VIII 950 Console The Executive contains an 800C receiver, Garrard Type A MKII Turntable, and an AMPEX Model 1250 Reel to Reel tape deck. All working to factory spec.

I've got a couple FISHER Stereo console radio head Tuner and amps , that I might (IF I can figure out where to install them) install in the 2570 inplace of that Black Chinese crap radio. I've heard better fidelity out of a late 50's pocket transistor radio with a split speaker.

As setup with the Tape deck the Executive's price in 1963 was 1795.00 (You could buy a Chevy II Nova for that with the 194CID inline 6.)

Stock Photo from FISHER of the Model 960(1964) which was identical to the 950.