Sunline RV Forum
Sunline User Photos

Go Back   Sunline Coach Owner's Club > Model Specific Forums > Sunline Travel Trailers
Click Here to Login

Join Sunline Club Forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-21-2011, 09:46 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Drake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 210
SUN #1340
Drake is an unknown quantity at this point
Electrical ratings of wall sockets...any difference

So here's a technical question. It got pretty chilly up in Charlotte County when we winterized the 88 Seville several weekends ago. Since the furnace is on my list to overhaul, I hooked up a small space heater to the wall socket next to the fold out table of the dinette. After a while...an hour or so, I started to smell electrical fumes. I checked the socket and sure enough the smell was coming from there. Obviously, I unplugged that bad boy in a hurry. I looked around and on the wall near the stove is an outlet that projects away from the wall a half inch or so. I'm thinking this must be the microwave outlet and if so, is bound to be capable of handling the amperage of a small space heater. So I plugged it in and checked it often for the next few hours...no smell, no hot heater cord or plug. So I turned the heater back and went to bed. It worked fine...no problem.

I was wondering if Sunline had different load(wattage/amperage) ratings for different outlets in the tailer. Seems to me this must have been the case as per my experience. If so, why weren't labels placed on the outlets to inform folks of this situation...It's pretty dangerous not to isn't it?

Now, I know space heaters in any environment are not anybody's best choice for heat, and it seems especially unwise in travel trailers now that I've had this experience. What do you folks use to take the chill off if you don't use the A/C reversing system or the furnace (both of which can be expensive to use for long periods of time) on your TT's ? Ceramic? Oil filled, Ben Gay applied liberally to all parts,(mostly) of the body? What.
__________________

__________________
'88 T3200
Permanently situated in Charlotte County VA
Drake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 07:42 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,916
SUN #2097
mainah is an unknown quantity at this point
They are 15 amp. The way you can tell is the socket lay out a 15 amp will have both pins lined up a 20 amp will have one at 90 degrees to the other all though you can still plug a 15 amp load you can plug in a 20 amp load also but not so with a 15 amp socket. I just came back for VT and I did fine with a 1000 watt electric heater however your camper is a good bit bigger then mine. Two 1000 watt heaters will be too much for a 15 amp circuit even if you have two breakers for different outlets the adapter to plug into your house is only rated 15 amps now if you are plugged in with your big plug (30 amp) your fine. If you are just going to be working inside a Mr Buddy heater maybe fine for your needs but not for sleeping.
__________________

__________________
mainah is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 09:01 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
As our rigs age, some things change like the connections on electrical stuff. If there is even a bit of oxidation on the connections, or the connection is not as tight as it should be, the additional resistance can cause the fixture to heat up.

IIRC, Sunline didn't put the wall outlets in boxes but just taped them up and fastened them to the paneling and covered with a plate. Given that moisture can easily migrate in and out of the luan walls, and if the trailer was ever towed regularly, oxidation, corrosion, and loose connectors in perimeter walls are likely to occur.

The microwave outlet may have been installed in a surface mount box which would protect it further.

The only solution I can offer is to open them all up and inspect them. Clean and tighten as needed, re-tape and put 'em back together.

AFAIK, every outlet in the trailer should be good for 15 amps although some circuits may have more outlets than others.
__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 04:31 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,916
SUN #2097
mainah is an unknown quantity at this point
Typical RV outlets are not the best they are meant to be easy to assemble during construction. The plate is part of the outlet they are not like a house cover that you can just take off and remove the outlet. If you have an outlet that is not in a box but just screwed to the wall it is not code not even a little bit and likely added after it was sold. Your protruding outlet maybe a GFI if the microwave is any where near water it should be a GFI.
__________________
mainah is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 07:21 PM   #5
Moderator
 
EMD_Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,039
SUN #897
EMD_Driver is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to EMD_Driver Send a message via Yahoo to EMD_Driver
Not sure if this helps, but I thought I would share.

When we dis-assembled the T299SR, they only used 12g wire for the air conditioner. All the other AC circuits, were wired with 14g wire. Including the circuit for the microwave.
__________________
Gary
SunlineClub Custom Google Search

2007 Peterson Excel Limited 30RKE
2014 Ford F350XLT SRW Crew Cab, Long bed 6.7PSD

EMD_Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 07:48 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainah View Post
If you have an outlet that is not in a box but just screwed to the wall it is not code not even a little bit and likely added after it was sold.
What we commonly think of as "code" is regular building code. RV's are not subject to code. My entire '99 Sunline was wired like that. I bought it new from the dealer. It came from the factory like that.
__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 08:13 PM   #7
Moderator
 
EMD_Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,039
SUN #897
EMD_Driver is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to EMD_Driver Send a message via Yahoo to EMD_Driver
The picture below, is a typical RV receptacle. The screws turn plastic ears, that engage the wallboard and hold the outlet in place. There is no "Box" to hold the receptacle.

__________________
Gary
SunlineClub Custom Google Search

2007 Peterson Excel Limited 30RKE
2014 Ford F350XLT SRW Crew Cab, Long bed 6.7PSD

EMD_Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 08:47 PM   #8
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 9,957
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake View Post

I was wondering if Sunline had different load(wattage/amperage) ratings for different outlets in the tailer. Seems to me this must have been the case as per my experience. If so, why weren't labels placed on the outlets to inform folks of this situation...It's pretty dangerous not to isn't it?

What do you folks use to take the chill off if you don't use the A/C reversing system or the furnace (both of which can be expensive to use for long periods of time) on your TT's ? Ceramic? Oil filled,.
Drake,

I'll add a few comments to help the cause.

What wattage was your heater? I'll guess 1500 watts. If your on a nominal 110 volt source that can be 13 amps of power in just that heater. If your 120 volts a little less.

Now the way Sunline and most other camper brands are made share loads on the AC side. You can see here on a one and only Sunline wiring diagram we have Sunline Coach Owner's Club - Sunline Owner's Files - Sunline Solaris T-2499 Wiring Diagram

I obtained that from Sunline for my prior camper when they where still in business. I do not know what Sunline did in 1988... but I do know in 2004 as that diagram shows us.

If you look the "general purpose" circuit has other overhead on it even if you are not plugged in with your 1500 watt heater. The convertor is on it which I "think" you still have. And the fridge electric element. In your case you yanked out the RV fridge but where did you plug in the small dorm fridge? Use the same plug that was right there?

Now add that to what Steve noted as loose wires, corrosion. It is not surprising you had a hot setup if that heater was on high full out. Odds are high your where sitting right on the limit.

Sunline did not tag that the key is realizing it. You can do the same thing in your house even.

If you look they do have a galley plug. Yours "might" have one/ It should be by the countertop area by the stove. Kitchen have things plugged in then that can create heat. Coffee pots, electric frying pans so they give you a dedicated 15 amps. You may have found that one. They also have a dedicated 15 amp microwave. Or you may have foudn that one, in the newer campers the micro wave receptacle is a single outlet.

You need to sort out how your vintage is wired. The wall outlets have great chance to be tied to other stuff which is where your problem started.

Since you smelt electrical, there is something that created it verses tripping the breaker or fuse. Best now that you know it, check every outlet for loose wires, corrosion etc. like Steve stated. Even back at the power box on the breaker. Check all screws to be tight. Us who tow down the road get road vibration and can loosen things up. Knowing the flammable construction of a TT, check into this. That circuit is weak now and some day in the it may rear it's head again.

Now what do we do? No we do not do the Ben gay....LOL

We use an oil filled and a ceramic heater. I bring in a separate extension cord 12 awg, through the shore line cord hole. One heater goes on that separate cord. The other heater goes on medium heat on the wall outlets. And I have "showed" my DW, only 1 heat producing anything plugged in at once. She does good by it. Even turns off the heater when she runs the microwave. It is easy to run out of a 30 amp supply quick. The HW heater on electric, the fridge on electric, the battery charging on high, and then plug in a heater, hair dryer, toaster, microwave and your over the top of 30 amps. Same problem can happen in the summer with the AC on.

The key is to realize it.

Hope this helps

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 08:59 PM   #9
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 9,957
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
The discussion on the 120 wall outlet just being screw into wood. Well it seems we have some dates on this. Steve's 1999 had the scewed in the wood setup.

Seems maybe RIVA caught up with the times and I believe plastic boxes arrived on the scene somewhere between 2000 and 2003.

I borrowed this pic from Kitty and EMD_Driver you can see the plastic box in the wall. It is only on the Romex wire. The 12vdc is just stuffed in the wall. EDIT: This may "not" be a box for the wall outlet. It may be the newer system RV recptacle whivh from this view mihgt look like a box. EMD_Driver to confrim.


And you can see here on my slide repair. The 120AC is joined in a plastic box. They even have conduit sleeves through the studs as a wire chase. The odd thing is it was a piece of bare EMT??? Why use metal? Technically that should of been plastic for double insulated or metal grounded. One of these days I'll see if I can get a RIVA book on what codes they do have.


Just throwing this out as FYI

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 09:02 PM   #10
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 9,957
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver View Post
The picture below, is a typical RV receptacle. The screws turn plastic ears, that engage the wallboard and hold the outlet in place. There is no "Box" to hold the receptacle.

Gary, where they though out the T299? They may have done something different in the slide.
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 09:20 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
The '99 had these guys throughout the TT. They removed the standard #6 screws and used RV #2 square head wood screws right into the luan.



And then just wrapped the whole thing with electric tape.
__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 10:08 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Drake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 210
SUN #1340
Drake is an unknown quantity at this point
You know....I am soooooo glad to be a member of this club. You guys and gals ALWAYS have so much knowledge to share and share it so freely. Come spring, I'm going to be doing some outlet investigation. And I will find safer, lower wattage ways of heating the old Seville.Thanks to each one of you who responded in such a thorough and friendly way. You're the best.
__________________
'88 T3200
Permanently situated in Charlotte County VA
Drake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2011, 05:42 AM   #13
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 9,957
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Collins View Post
The '99 had these guys throughout the TT. They removed the standard #6 screws and used RV #2 square head wood screws right into the luan.



And then just wrapped the whole thing with electric tape.
Steve,

WOW....... Well it looks like from "maybe" Gary's note until he comes back and confirms that on the 2004 T299 tear down that at least between 1999 and 2003 they went from a taped standard home receptacle to at least an encased and insulated receptacle.

I am curious what my wall plugs are. I know the slide junction box was a plastic box for the rubber SOOW cord junction for the 120 power to the slide. The wall outlets, well I never tore it down that far. This weekend when we are out camping I am going to take a face plate off and look.

The good news is RIVA is at least trying to address some of the issues. I wish they would up the requirements to arc fault breakers. Not that much cost now a days and the protection in a camper is worth it. Odds are high the arc fault breaker would of helped Drake in his situation. They are now NEC code for bedrooms in new homes.

We continue to learn the evolution of TT building.

Thanks

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2011, 07:37 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,916
SUN #2097
mainah is an unknown quantity at this point
The outlet is the box there are no exposed wires, the back of the box crimps the romex inside, cuts the insulation and makes contact with the outlet that’s why I’m not real fond of them the contact is not that good. States have different codes or should I say had different codes there is a national code in place now. My 87 motor home and my 90 Sunline all have the full plastic box and I find it hard to believe PA allowed the outlets to be exposed it’s just too dangerous. For 15 years I was the electronics tech for the Cumberland County ME and did house and industrial wiring as a side line and they would hang me out to dry if I tried some thing like that. The wire size is a good way to tell how much load they are fused for #14 wire is a max of 15 amps (1800 watts @ 120 V) and a #12 is a max of 20 amps (2400 watts @ 120V). My T1700 only has one 15 amp circuit but 4 outlets + the battery charger so pretty fast I’m going to max out the 15 amp if I plug a lot of stuff in. All though the chance of ever using max current for my battery charger (it is a replacement) is slim it in it’s self can draw as much as 750 watts. The other thing you need to keep in mind is any adaptor added to the 30 amp city power plug is a compromise because it is only rated to 15 amps all though it can be plugged into a 20 circuit.
__________________

__________________
mainah is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wheel pressure ratings EMD_Driver Repairs and Maintenance 0 01-23-2010 05:04 PM
Wall Clock DrJ Sunline Travel Trailers 8 05-27-2008 06:14 AM
RV Travel Trailer Hitch System Ratings bugbite Towing and Tow Vehicles 0 07-12-2007 07:24 PM
Interesting Tire Info including speed ratings: Mark Repairs and Maintenance 4 06-21-2007 12:05 PM
Various Wall Hooks PTHutch Modifications 2 06-15-2007 04:07 PM



Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sunline RV or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:16 PM.