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Old 09-03-2010, 05:38 PM   #1
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Que Towing Attributes and axle locations

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Originally Posted by pwb01 View Post
Just a note. The wheels on the 15 footers appear to be relatively further back than those of a heaver model. On the smaller units, the tongue weight will still be reasonable. The further back the wheels are, the less apt the unit is to sway.

On heavier models, there's a balance between wheel location and tongue weight so a sway bar becomes more necessary as the wheels move forward to keep the tongue weight within reason. A 5th wheel for example has the wheels much further toward the back with much more weight on the point of contact on the hitch in the bed than the back of the truck (tongue weight) could handle and sway control is not necessary, much like a tractor and trailer.
Very good point. I never thought about it, but the wheels on the QUE are further back then many other TT's.
One very good reason that in over 18,000 miles I never experienced any sway at all with my QUE....
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:26 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvrque View Post
Very good point. I never thought about it, but the wheels on the QUE are further back then many other TT's.
One very good reason that in over 18,000 miles I never experienced any sway at all with my QUE....
Joe

Moving the wheels further back changes the center of gravity of the TT and increases the tongue weight which creates a more stable towing TT. Sunline did a good job at this on just about every floor plan. It takes work to get it that way.

Some brand TT’s start out at the 10% tongue number empty or worse 9 or 8 and some 7%. Those you have to watch as the owner needs to realize it as they have to load it to get the TW up into the more stable zone.

This gets even more magnified the larger and higher the TT is. The high profile TT catches the wind worse and that air drag can start upsets one you start going above 45 mph. A smaller, lighter TT lower to the ground can get away a little bit easier. The effect is still there just the taller, larger TT is aggravated faster.

Ideally a very stable towing trailer has the wheels at the back of the trailer. Like a Horse trailer for example. Now these also end up being gooseneck due to the very large pin weight but having very little trailer behind the axle helps eliminate the sway effect. However it comes with a price, more pin weight or tongue weight.

While not conventional, a TT with a very long tongue, more then the standard setup will create a more stable towing TT as the distance from tow ball to TT axles just became greater and it shifts the center of gravity like moving the wheels back but adds very little overall weight. Like for example if there was a 4 foot beam extension on the tongue of the TT it would tow more stable and the TV have to hold up less tongue weight and you never move a thing inside the camper. The positive side of this concept is a more stable towing TT with less tongue weight. However the turning radius just became worse. A 20 foot TT would turn like a 24 foot TT. And while effective it would look strange seeing 4 foot of tongue extension hanging out, but for very little money it would tow a lot more stable. You would get stairs of “Look at that thing?” Being different always draws attention.

If I remember right Sunline shifted the Ques axles early on in production. They didn’t always use to be that far back. Sunline Fan I’m sure can fill in the particulars but they must of had some issues to force that change.


John
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Old 09-03-2010, 09:11 PM   #3
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Question Sunline Fan: Jon, Any info. or photos ?

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Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
Joe

Moving the wheels further back changes the center of gravity of the TT and increases the tongue weight which creates a more stable towing TT. Sunline did a good job at this on just about every floor plan. It takes work to get it that way.

Some brand TT’s start out at the 10% tongue number empty or worse 9 or 8 and some 7%. Those you have to watch as the owner needs to realize it as they have to load it to get the TW up into the more stable zone.

This gets even more magnified the larger and higher the TT is. The high profile TT catches the wind worse and that air drag can start upsets one you start going above 45 mph.

If I remember right Sunline shifted the Ques axles early on in production. They didn’t always use to be that far back. Sunline Fan I’m sure can fill in the particulars but they must of had some issues to force that change.
John
John,
The REQue has a dry hitch weight of 380lbs. which is 12.96% /2930lbs.
The SEQue has a dry hitch weight of 300lbs. which is 10.27% /2920lbs.
I have 2 different Que brochures the older one shows a different front end (that never went to production I was told by Larue @ Sunline) & the SE door further to the rear, different table. Plus diff. size fresh water tanks on the RE & SE. I don't see the wheels any further to the front in the older photo with early front end. Maybe the the further front axle Que never went into production Like the old front end ?
Maybe Jon knows more ?
Sunline Fan,
Jon: do you have any info. or Photos of the wheels/axle more to the front ?

One thing of many I like about the Que is the 7ft.width of the box BUT the wheels stick out 5 1/2" on ea. side for a total of 7'11" width making it more stable with a little less wind resistance than a 8'box........
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Old 09-03-2010, 09:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvrque View Post
John,
The REQue has a dry hitch weight of 380lbs. which is 12.96% /2930lbs.
The SEQue has a dry hitch weight of 300lbs. which is 10.27% /2920lbs.

One thing of many I like about the Que is the 7ft.width of the box BUT the wheels stick out 5 1/2" on ea. side for a total of 7'11" width making it more stable with a little less wind resistance than a 8'box........
Joe, Yes the SE Que falls in that 10% area dry, but it is a little camper. And like you said 7 foot box = less wind drag. And the wheels outside the box do add a level to the stability. Just watch out for mail boxes along the side of the road.... Things that stick out go bump in the night and day...LOL

In the case of the smaller TT the 10% area is still OK but caution your there and watch what and where you are loading gear. Doing 10% on a 6,000# dry camper, 8 foot wide and a slide which is taller in the 10' 6" or more over the AC unit has more chance of upset. Bigger camper, bigger brick to tow and the in-stability factor goes up even though the same 10% balance ratio. Wind drag is not your friend.

Norm with his Honda CRV and little TT has this effect. His tongue weight is low but it just works.That and the weights difference between TV and TT. Which is also in your case. Your Tahoe vehicle mass against the Que's is in the right direction to prevent the TT from pushing the truck around.

TT weight and balance is a big part of towing stability and the 1st that needs to be in line. Then comes a lot of other factors to fall in place. TV Wheel base, tires, TV suspension, WD hitch, etc.

When Sunline Fan jumps in here I know he knows the Que's wheel base shift deal. He was the one I had heard it from early on in the production models. He has pics of it somewhere too I think. Or I'm having a senior moment and I have one to many TT's and specs to have remembered right.... It happens... LOL

John
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:46 AM   #5
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John & Joe,

The axle was actually moved forward. The conversion to the forward axle happened sometime around production number 5800. At this point there couldn't have been many Que's produced at all. I know of two with the rearward axle...they are rare. The reason I've been told for moving it forward is they had too much tongue weight for most of the tow vehicles it was advertised that could tow it. Granted it would tow great with the rear axle, but they moved it anyway. This is why the awning arm got stuck in front of the one storage door.











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Old 09-04-2010, 08:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunline Fan View Post
John & Joe,

The axle was actually moved forward. The conversion to the forward axle happened sometime around production number 5800. At this point there couldn't have been many Que's produced at all. I know of two with the rearward axle...they are rare. The reason I've been told for moving it forward is they had too much tongue weight for most of the tow vehicles it was advertised that could tow it. Granted it would tow great with the rear axle, but they moved it anyway. This is why the awning arm got stuck in front of the one storage door.
Jon
Jon,
Thanks for the info. and especially the PHOTOS.........
Wow I never seen a TT with a axel that far back ! It had a VERY LARGE side window even larger than my RE.
Now the SE has a small side window. I also see the early high mounted batt.
Plus they NEVER updated the brochures. I have 2 diff. ones & they all show the OLD SE door location & cabinets, I will include a photo (Tweety's) that shows the way all SE's are except about 2 like you said.
I can see NO reason why they moved the awning foward, except the door would not swing 180degs (they could have put a door closer rod on the door or another type bracket to hold the door open ).......

Well even with the axel move it is still more to the rear than most TT's that I have seen. One reason it tows GREAT!

PS..........SORRY for hijacking this thread.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Que SE interior.jpg (38.8 KB, 6 views)
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvrque View Post
Jon,
Thanks for the info. and especially the PHOTOS.........
Wow I never seen a TT with a axel that far back ! It had a VERY LARGE side window even larger than my RE.
Now the SE has a small side window. I also see the early high mounted batt.
Plus they NEVER updated the brochures. I have 2 diff. ones & they all show the OLD SE door location & cabinets, I will include a photo (Tweety's) that shows the way all SE's are except about 2 like you said.
I can see NO reason why they moved the awning foward, except the door would not swing 180degs (they could have put a door closer rod on the door or another type bracket to hold the door open ).......

Well even with the axel move it is still more to the rear than most TT's that I have seen. One reason it tows GREAT!

PS..........SORRY for hijacking this thread.....
No problem Joe! I was actually surprised by the second one, I had forgotten I had it, not to mention it has much better pictures (the ones I posted)

FYI, for those curious, this is #5734.

I know they didn't update the brochures. I think they were thinking more long term and figured they'd have a more detailed brochure for the next full model year, which never came to be. I think they were just trying to keep their head above water for the last couple months, so making a mid-model-year update like that was the last thing they'd think to do.

You mention you have two different brochures. Do you mean just two copies or two versions? I only know of the one style/revision.

I'm not sure why they decided to move the awning. My only guess was that they had the one style of door catches, and it would have required more capital to go out to purchase and/or design a new style of door catch, which they just weren't willing to do in the end. This change would have probably taken place around February of 2006, so they may have been working on a replacement, but they just never had the time to get it to production. Keep in mind that the majority of the Ques built were built in Late January, February, and March of 2006, so by the time anything could come about as a replacement, they built such a small percentage after that time (about 22% of all Que production) that it wasn't worth changing.

Jon
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1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
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No problem Joe! I was actually surprised by the second one, I had forgotten I had it, not to mention it has much better pictures (the ones I posted)

FYI, for those curious, this is #5734.

I know they didn't update the brochures. I think they were thinking more long term and figured they'd have a more detailed brochure for the next full model year, which never came to be.

You mention you have two different brochures. Do you mean just two copies or two versions? I only know of the one style/revision.

Jon
Jon.
Now I know there were three different brochures. I have two different ones an neither one is the one you have on file on the Sunline site. I think the one you have is the first version. It shows length of 17' & Dry weight of 2,700lbs.for the SE & RE.

My second version is the same BUT it shows length of 17' 7" & Dry weight of 2,905lbs.for the RE and 2,825 for the SE. Those two versions show the drawing of the SE with the door more to the rear and a table with a 45deg. pc.cut off. Also the cheaper Brisk Air A/C $822. not the low profile Penguin $974.(todays prices) and the Old front that never made it to production.

My third version shows the new front with the Penguin A/C (but only on the last page),Dry weight of 2,930lbs. for the RE & 2,920 for the SE. length of 17' 7". It shows the drawing of the SE with the door more to the front, extra cabinet and a Rectangle table.
Plus version Three has more Info. like interior & exterior height,bed sizes,cargo capacity,dry hitch weight, and more available options.
Plus verisionOne & Two show Fresh water tank of 28gals. (total 34 gals.)
version Three shows Fresh water tank of 21gals. (total of 27gals.)
All Three show a latch for the bath door not the normal door knob like I think they all have.
BTW... I got my second version in the spring of 2006 (late April ?)
I got my third version sent to me on June 2,2006
Thanks again Jon. If you have any other info. on the QUE i would be VERY intrested........
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvrque View Post
Jon.
Now I know there were three different brochures. I have two different ones an neither one is the one you have on file on the Sunline site. I think the one you have is the first version. It shows length of 17' & Dry weight of 2,700lbs.for the SE & RE.

My second version is the same BUT it shows length of 17' 7" & Dry weight of 2,905lbs.for the RE and 2,825 for the SE. Those two versions show the drawing of the SE with the door more to the rear and a table with a 45deg. pc.cut off. Also the cheaper Brisk Air A/C $822. not the low profile Penguin $974.(todays prices) and the Old front that never made it to production.

My third version shows the new front with the Penguin A/C (but only on the last page),Dry weight of 2,930lbs. for the RE & 2,920 for the SE. length of 17' 7". It shows the drawing of the SE with the door more to the front, extra cabinet and a Rectangle table.
Plus version Three has more Info. like interior & exterior height,bed sizes,cargo capacity,dry hitch weight, and more available options.
Plus verisionOne & Two show Fresh water tank of 28gals. (total 34 gals.)
version Three shows Fresh water tank of 21gals. (total of 27gals.)
All Three show a latch for the bath door not the normal door knob like I think they all have.
BTW... I got my second version in the spring of 2006 (late April ?)
I got my third version sent to me on June 2,2006
Thanks again Jon. If you have any other info. on the QUE i would be VERY intrested........
Hmm, learn something new every day! I've never paid that much attention to the Que brochure because Sunline had already scanned it, so Sarah had just put this up directly from the Sunline website and I never scanned any of mine. I do have quite a few Que brochures though, so I'll have to look at them to see if I have all three versions.

Jon
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1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:17 PM   #10
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Que Towing Attributes and axle locations

This is a moved thread with a lot of great Que towing and axle features. This info fits better here and in it's own post
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