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Old 10-26-2009, 07:08 PM   #1
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Recycling Sunny 13's generator, to use with Sunny 14

Since we didn't have a way to mount the Onan Camp Power 3600W generator in the T-320SR, I kicked around a few ideas. Kitty decided that she wanted it on wheels and able to be rolled on/off the truck bed. A trip to Lowes, CW and Autozone yielded all the parts necessary. I bought some wheels and square steel tubes at Lowes, as well as a piece of flat 1/2" steel. I took the 1/2" flat steel to our locomotive shop and cut/drilled it into enough pieces to hold the wheels to the square steel tubes.



I originally only had it on the two steel tubes, that run the length of the generator, but that didn't give me enough clearance for the muffler. BTW: I priced the parts needed from Onan to mount the muffler beside the generator, but they came to over $500. That made me decide to mount the muffler we already had, in the factory location. The tailpipe was bent into an elbow shape, but it pointed towards the pickup bed. As you can see in the above pic, I picked up some 1-1/2"ID flex exhaust pipe and mounted it where I cut the elbow off.

The flex pipe was the perfect length to run out from under the left side of the generator and point straight up. I then used a short piece of rigid exhaust pipe and a hanger to attach the exhaust to the square steel tube.



The generator output wires and battery cables all come out near the exhaust, but were wrapped and attached to the hanger. I did not get any pics of that though.



Before I attached the wires, I hooked up a 20lb LPG cylinder and a battery. I started the generator and allowed it to run for 15 minutes, under load. I assumed that it would give me a good idea of temperatures at the different areas of the exhaust system. Inside the generator housing and where the pipe mounts to the head, I had 429 degrees Fahrenheit. The inlet of the muffler was 340 degrees. The outlet end of the muffler was at 230 degrees and where the flex and rigid pipe connected was at 183 degrees. The very end of the exhaust pipe was 130 degrees.

I also checked the bed liner and it was 179 degrees. I will be making a heat shield, to mount under the muffler. The part of the hanger with the wires attached, never changed temperature.

I put a single stage regulator and six feet of hose on the fuel inlet. This way, the generator will have it's own fuel supply. If it ever becomes necessary, I can tap into the Sunline's LPG system and run the generator from that.



When I removed the generator from Sunny 13, I also removed the remote start/stop switch and hour meter. Kitty wants it in the camper, so she won't have to go out and start/stop it. When we thought about where to mount it, the thought of making a huge hole in the wall made me cringe! We came up with a few thoughts and decided to use the cell phone holder that Kitty bought for the camper.

I marked where the holes needed to be and cut them out..







Here's the plate, with the switch and meter removed.



Here's the phone holder, with everything installed.



From the underside.



The wiring harness only contains five wires, so I intend to route them to the tongue of the camper. I'll connect the ends to a 7-way RV receptacle and have the wires from the generator go to a 7-way plug. That way, you couldn't mistakenly plug the generator wires to the TV.
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:21 PM   #2
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Hi Gary

Nice Job!! That sort of adds new meaning to “porta power” LOL

You said you ran wires to the coach battery. H’mm is the Onan a 12 VDC gen set or a 120 VAC and you run the internal converter to create the 12 volts? Or is that battery run for the engine electric starter?

OK what did you come up with on how to get it on and off the truck bed? How heavy is is?

Out of curiosity if the Onan a weather rated unit you can run in the rain? This fall we boondocked for 9 days. Did daily battery recharges in case I had to go 2 plus days with no recharge. 4 days of that 9 is was rainy and wet on and off during the day when we could run the genny. I had to put the Honda under the slide right up to the edge, exhaust pointing out in order to run it during the rain. Or run the shore line way over to the awning side and deal with it over there. It worked OK just I never gave it a thought about the rain until I was in the rain…

John
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:21 AM   #3
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John,
I used the original 12V battery cables and hooked them to a deep cycle battery in the bed of the truck. I checked the battery voltage before and after starting and it was 12.4v. That tells me, that the battery will not get charged back up by the generator. I may have to run a set of cables from the truck's batteries.

The generator puts out 30AMPS AC power. Curious thing is, that they only have 12g wire coming out of the generator. The pigtail I used, is 10g.

The unit weighs ~170lbs (Not including the additional steel) We simply rolled it up a set of mower ramps, to get it in the truck.

I also believe it is weather resistant. All the 12v positive electrical components are inside the case, while the ground is outside. Everything is protected.
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:12 AM   #4
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You can see by the hour meter just how much use this genny has had since installed in September '05. And at least 10 - 12 hours of that time was put on there last July going to Bowling Green, KY for the diesel truck rally.

Seems like what ever hair brained blonde idea I can think of, Gary can find a way to accomplish it, maybe not always willingly though.

Hum, my ideas are running low, better spend some time in RV.Net or Lowes to think of some more
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:20 AM   #5
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Gary

Your volt meter sort of confirms the 12 volt ability of the Onan. The battery tie is for the electric start, not charging. That dawned on me when I thought about the remote starter switch. It needs power from somewhere to start from a remote switch….

Being a pull cord guy on the Honda the convenience of push button start never dawned on me…

If you have a 30 amp 120 VAC output, then the TT onboard convertor (American CS6000 if it is still original) will charge the battery when the genny is running. However your vintage convertor if it is still original I do not think it has a boost mode (14.4 VDC plus high amps). Just normal charge (13.6 VDC and lower amps) and float (13.25 VDC in the milli amps). You may have to confirm that but if your looking for a long use boondock setup it takes a real, real, real long time at 13.6 VDC to recharge your 2 house batteries back up to at least 90% state of charge if they have been drawn down to 50%.

Now for the weather sounds like the enclosure is OK but…. well a diesel guy like you, do you have an exhaust pipe flapper to put on the vertical stack? It beats the coffee can… Tractor Supply should have them. I have not had to buy one in a really long time. I remember well the last time I forgot to out the coffee can on the John Deere. Upon startup there was fine black specs of soot everywhere…. That pretty Ford Blue or Brown truck will not look so pretty after a rain startup…

John
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Gary

Your volt meter sort of confirms the 12 volt ability of the Onan. The battery tie is for the electric start, not charging. That dawned on me when I thought about the remote starter switch. It needs power from somewhere to start from a remote switch….

Being a pull cord guy on the Honda the convenience of push button start never dawned on me…
I'm kinda leaning towards the connection to the TV's batteries, for starting the genset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
If you have a 30 amp 120 VAC output, then the TT onboard convertor (American CS6000 if it is still original) will charge the battery when the genny is running. However your vintage convertor if it is still original I do not think it has a boost mode (14.4 VDC plus high amps). Just normal charge (13.6 VDC and lower amps) and float (13.25 VDC in the milli amps). You may have to confirm that but if your looking for a long use boondock setup it takes a real, real, real long time at 13.6 VDC to recharge your 2 house batteries back up to at least 90% state of charge if they have been drawn down to 50%.
We still have the original Centurion 3000 converter, that came in the 320. We've been looking at converters already, but that kind of cash outlay will have to wait a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Now for the weather sounds like the enclosure is OK but…. well a diesel guy like you, do you have an exhaust pipe flapper to put on the vertical stack? It beats the coffee can… Tractor Supply should have them. I have not had to buy one in a really long time. I remember well the last time I forgot to out the coffee can on the John Deere. Upon startup there was fine black specs of soot everywhere…. That pretty Ford Blue or Brown truck will not look so pretty after a rain startup…

John
I actually looked at them on Sunday, but didn't pick one up... Duh!! It will have a flapper! You should try starting a locomotive, after a lot of rain. Black specks of soot EVERYWHERE!!
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver
We still have the original Centurion 3000 converter, that came in the 320. We've been looking at converters already, but that kind of cash outlay will have to wait a while.
Gary when you get to it, check out the Progressive Dynamics 60 amp convertor as a choice. Yes it is a little more money and yes you may have to find a mounting place, but you and your talents can over come that.

The convertor is well worth what you pay for it. I got mine from http://www.bestconverter.com/ at the time they where the cheapest. Progressive Dynmaics now also makes them with the fuse panel too if so desired. Just make sure you get the charge wizard option if you go this route.

Good luck when the time comes.

John

PS No I have not started a Locomotive lately... or ever.... Talk about a TV? How many HP are they?
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:53 PM   #8
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John,
All the Intelli-power converters I looked at, were only rated to 13.6VDC. I didn't see any of them, with "Boost mode" Any suggestions?

Yep, my work vehicle was made to be a great TV! The ones we run, have a 16-567 diesel in them. Translated, it means 16 cylinders and 567 cubic inches per cylinder. They are rated at 1,750 horsepower. Believe it or not, we are not as concerned about horsepower, as we are about tractive effort. The diesel engine runs a big generator, which supplies electricity to the traction motors between the wheels. Tractive effort is the amount of pulling power available, before the wheels start spinning.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:54 PM   #9
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One other thing John.... Why only a 60AMP converter? Wouldn't a 70 or 80AMP work better?
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:30 PM   #10
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Starting an EMD

Gary,
Now you've got my curiosity going.
How do you start an EMD?
Does it have an auxiliary compressor and start with pressurized air?
Roar
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver
One other thing John.... Why only a 60AMP converter? Wouldn't a 70 or 80AMP work better?
Gary

See here. PD9260C with charge wizard. Do not get exactly fooled by that 13.6 volts. That is the normal charge voltage, the no load DC voltage, not what it is capable of. I could not figure out how you found that as I know this is a 4 mode charger as I have seen it do it. But then I can see how you came to that conclusion.

http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_d...pd9260c_2.html

http://www.progressivedyn.com/power_...ters_9200.html Read the bottom area on specs .

See here, a few more clicks. 14.4 volts boost, 13.7 normal charge, 13.2 volt float plus desulfate mode.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_details/pendant.html

And Mr Charge Wizard
http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_d...ge_wizard.html

And here for Mr FAQ
http://www.progressivedyn.com/about_...onverters.html

They are a good convertor just there web site makes you hunt and peck for all the info all over the place....

Now why a 60 and not a 70 or 80 amp?

Well there is a standing post in the Community section with Mr. Tweety, Frank and I on just how fast a battery will charge and what these new smart converters put out. Se here for lots of battery charging techy talk trying to figure this out. http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/ph...pic.php?t=2991

Here is what I have read up on. I have to some day call Progressive to find out per spec what there charge algorithm actually is. But here goes.

There is a point on a deep cycle battery that gets constant recharges where you can burn it up if you routinely pump too much current into it at once. It seems that the amp hour capacity ( C ) of the battery that is rated on a 20 hour drain time, is divided by 8 and then that is the most current you should pump into the battery and be safe for a long term constant recharge operation. So a 115 amp hour battery / 8 = 14.75 amps max current recharge rate.

Plus Sunline put a 30 amp circuit breaker up front on ours and maybe a breaker or fuse on yours. So the max is 30 amps can even get to the battery and that lines up with the 6 awg wire I have.

I have 2 group 27 batteries and the Amp hour/8 rating, the wire size and the infamous 30 amp breaker all line up to the max I can charge it. The PD9260C converter senses the resistance across the battery and boost its voltage and current proportionally if it is below 90% SOC. The PD9260C limits the charge current and even though I have a 60 amp charger, it will never charge my 2 batteries above 30 amps.

Sunline generally only puts battery trays in for Group 24. I upped the size myself. So they wired it to what could fit from the factory.

Basically if you batteries are low, like 50% SOC, then 30 amps of the converter can go to the battery. It never gives that much but it could. Then you have an additional 30 amps to run the rest of the camper while you are charging the battery at full rate. Running the water pump, lights, the fridge, etc all suck 12 VDC. If you have a small converter, like a 30 amp one, well if the battery wants it and your 921 light bulbs are on at 1.4 amps each… you are never going to charge very fast because the supply at the converter can’t keep up.

By going to a 80 amp converter it only buys me more inside 12 VDC, not more battery charge power unless I start adding even more batteries and do a major rewire to get above 30 amp charging rat I'm at now using the ( C ) amp hour/8 max charge rate.

This is how I sorted it out. Like I said the converter is limiting the current. I was ready to up my wire size, but it would not buy be a whole lot once I realized the converter is a limiting factor as well.

OK does that help? Probably more then you asked for but I know you will use it before you select a converter when ever that day comes to be.

John
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:19 PM   #12
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Re: Starting an EMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking
Gary,
Now you've got my curiosity going.
How do you start an EMD?
Does it have an auxiliary compressor and start with pressurized air?
Roar
Some locos used an air start, but these don't. Instead, they use the 74VDC batteries to turn the main generator and use that as a starter. I just scrapped the batteries out of one of our locos and they weighed a total of 3,720lbs!

I guess that would be a bit too much tongue load, to try using them on a TT.. hehe
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB

OK does that help? Probably more then you asked for but I know you will use it before you select a converter when ever that day comes to be.

John
Before reading your post and the pages at the accompanying links, it was clear as mud. Now, I think I have a fairly good handle on the whole charging idea.

I do have one question though... On the best converter site, they list a Centurion replacement mainboard.

http://www.bestconverter.com/CS3000-...ard_p_360.html

Would there be any advantage to using this, or just simply go ahead and do the PD upgrade?
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB

OK does that help? Probably more then you asked for but I know you will use it before you select a converter when ever that day comes to be.

John
Before reading your post and the pages at the accompanying links, it was clear as mud. Now, I think I have a fairly good handle on the whole charging idea.

I do have one question though... On the best converter site, they list a Centurion replacement mainboard.

http://www.bestconverter.com/CS3000-...ard_p_360.html

Would there be any advantage to using this, or just simply go ahead and do the PD upgrade?
Hi Gary,

Well I’m glad the mud may be clearing… There is also a few things that just dawned on me with your TT. I “thought” a while back in another post that you stated the wire from the converter to the battery was small, like no 10 or no 8 AWG. Did I remember this right? And I thought you said you added a 2nd battery up on the tongue? Yes/no?

Well here is the light bulb idea….. I never realized you only have a 30 amp converter. I guess that is yet another thing that jumped between 2003 and 2004. Sunline in 2004 goes to a 60 amp converter. And thew also have no 6 awg wire from converter to battery and both my 2004’s have dual battery trays.

OK wheres the light bulb…. Well if your original setup was only 30 amp total and the old converter applies by a C/8 rule, the converter will only be putting 9.4 amps to a single group 24, 75 amp hour battery. So No 8 awg would fit for 9.4 amps. 10 awg might but I have to look that one up in a battery setup/voltage drop. So this might explain why Sunline put smaller wire in.

Now you asked about the Best Converter 30 amp Centerion upgrade. I followed the link but it does not tell me a whole lot about the converter. Is it 3 stage charging? Does it have desulfate mode?

For a Centerion upgrade as an option, see here. American sells just the Convertor board but you have to call them. http://www.americandirect.org/Produc...ers.html?C=12& The entire converter box and distribution panel is $129. Don’t know what just the board will be. Maybe in the $100 range. But again do not know if that is the new 3 stage system they offer. I do know they do not offer desulfate mode.

However, I thought Kitty bought a VDC Electronics Battery Minder Plus that has a desulfate mode on it and it can desulfate for you as an option. So you may not have to buy a converter with desulfate.

Now to the 2 batteries that I “thought” you added on Sunny 14. If I have that right, well that 30 amp converter might be a bit small for that large a amp hour capacity. Plus the small wire size. If you upgrade the wire to no 6, for running on 2 batteries and if you can get 25 amps heading into 2 group 27 batteries that leaves 5 to run the rest of the camper. OR the battery charge will just plan take longer as the camper is stealing some of the available power.

So, now the question is, How do you want to use the camper and the battery? If you only want to run on shore power, well the 30 amp converter and 1 group 24 works. If you are 2, group 24 batteries it gets close, 2, Group 27’s and you might be too close or it will take a really long time to charge.

If you want to boondock with the genny, then considering the PD 60 amp can give you options. It will still need a wire upgrade, but you can put 2 group 27’s or group 29’s on there and have room to use the camper too.

So there are some choices and more stuff to think thru…….

Good luck and hope it helps

John
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