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Old 02-06-2017, 12:03 PM   #1
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Quick question - exterior underside of trailer

I'm buying a 2006 Sunline Solaris, and looked under the trailer with a mirror to check for rust. Did not see anything to worry about, but then noticed -- in between framing, appears to be whatever that pieced together wood stuff is (it's also on the underside of the queen bed's platform if you lift the storage lid that the mattress rests on. It looks like odd-shaped different colored pieces of wood glued together and I don't know what that's called.) I fully expected the whole underside to be metal, and was surprised to see this material. Is it normal for that wood-like stuff to be exposed? If so, wouldn't it get wet when the trailer is going down the road?? (Sorry, new at this.)
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:43 PM   #2
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Hi OTW,

The wood stuff you are describing is OSB, oriented strand board. Glued together wood chips. And yes it is what the floor of the camper is made of.

But... something is not adding up right. If you are looking at a 2006 Sunline Solaris there is supposed to be black plastic membrane on the bottom which does runs from one end of the camper to the other end to cover up the insulation in the floor.

By any chance, do you have some pics you can post?

Was the black plastic even missing from the outside of the frame to the edge of the outside wall?

If the black membrane is missing, that "might" indicate the prior owner had some type of water issue that leaked through the floor and then got the insulation soaked. They may have taken the membrane off to get the insulation out and left it off.

This "might" be a simple issue that something inside the camper let go, like a leaking hot water heater that leaked into the floor, someone had a faucet run over etc. This may be a simpler fix but still caution.

OR this might be a big issue that water has leaked in up on the roof line, down the walls and into under the floor. And that could be a real big deal unless you are getting a bargain price and want to fix the damage yourself. And even then, let's talk so you know what you are getting into

Is this at a dealer or a private owner sale? You should try and find out "why" the black plastic membrane is not on the camper and then figure out if this is a camper for you or not.

You noted you were expecting metal on the bottom, well there are not many, very few to any, campers made today with metal bottoms. Most use the black plastic membrane. The older Sunline campers did use a metal bottom cover. Like in the 1980's vintage.

Hope this helps and good luck

John
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Old 02-06-2017, 03:45 PM   #3
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Hi John-
Thanks for your reply. My error typo -- it's a 2005. I did look at the OSB and it looked fine from what I could see but didn't crawl under it. Should a 2005 have black membrane over it? This was on the right side, toward the front (between front door and tongue). I'm hoping you'll say the black membrane started in 2006 models, but if not, I need to know that. Appreciate your chiming in.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:23 PM   #4
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I do not know what exact year Sunline switched from metal bottom covers to the black plastic membrane. I know for a fact, any year 2,000 or newer for sure has them. Even mid 90's most likely and maybe even early 90's.

A 2005 for sure had the plastic membrane when it left Sunline.

You said this,
Quote:
Should a 2005 have black membrane over it? This was on the right side, toward the front (between front door and tongue).
The entire underside of the camper, 100% of it should have it under the main camper box. But if you are only missing a piece of it, then OK, need to know more.

Do you know the model number? The model will start with a T- xxxx and 4 digits. Like T-2499 or T-1950 etc.

The model number will show up on the VIN tag on the front left of the camper. Left like in drivers side of your car, left. The non entry door side. The model number also shows up on the weight tag inside in a kitchen cabinet door or sometimes in the bath room door if there is none in the kitchen cabinet.

And the model number on a 2005 would be on a black engraved tag next to the main entry door to the camper. Unless it fell off.

Hope this helps

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Old 02-06-2017, 08:02 PM   #5
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Hi,


I'm not liking the sound of this, no black tarp like under side of camper and being able to see the OSB so that means there is no insulation in at least that one section that you looked. Mine is a 2000 and it has the black tarp like material and it runs from at least as high as the trap door (pictured). Here is what it looks like if the floor (OSB or plywood)and insulation is removed from the inside of the camper. Like John mentioned, pictures would help us figure it out.


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Old 02-07-2017, 05:00 AM   #6
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It's a 2553. I did read somewhere that if a camper is not built to be a wintering camper, that they may leave the OSB exposed. I now wish I'd crawled way under it, and learned about the black covering before, but from what I could see with the big mirror I brought, the underside OSB looked brand new - no discolored spots. I also looked under it where the leaf springs are over the axles (was checking for rust and knew there'd be a lot of metal stuff there) and I MIGHT have seen some black fabric, but not at all sure about that.
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Old 02-07-2017, 08:51 AM   #7
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It sounds to me like someone removed the OSB and insulation, probably to start a repair of torn material, and never finished. If there's no evidence of any water damage, it's not a terribly difficult fix. If it was me, I'd probably use some different materials for the repair.

To the best of my knowledge, Sunline always used a stem to stern, side to side, one piece layer of the Darco, followed by floor framing and insulation. Then they laid down the OSB decking.

My 2011 Cougar has similar construction except that the framing is aluminum.

Given that the Darco is intended to stop moisture penetration from the bottom, there would be no conceivable reason to omit it on a portion of the frame. Other manufacturers may have skimped on materials as you suggest, but Sunline did not. I'd be cautious of info like that unless it comes from a very reliable source.

The wheel wells above the tires would be a thin molded plastic. It's easily damaged if you have a flat, but also also easily repaired.

JohnB, the '99's had the Darco on all models as well. Jon will know for sure, but I would venture that Sunline started using the Darco in place of metal sheeting several years earlier.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:24 AM   #8
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Hmmm. Okay, well there may have been darco farther back (dang, I wish I could remember near the leaf springs) but for sure the first place I looked, which was near the front, and not far in off the trailer's right side, I saw very nice looking OSB plain as day. Surprised me because I didn't expect to see that there. It seems I saw SOME near the leaf springs, but I'm not sure, and unless my brain is now rewriting recall, I also seem to think I saw something like black fabric in the same look because I wouldn't expect to see fabric under a trailer either. I am going to have to call him and ask him about it. From what I've seen of him, he doesn't seem like he'd be someone to start to fix something, then abandon it and just leave it as is. But then he was very proud of his "original tires" which actually do look brand new with no tread wear and no cracks. But I later learned about the DOT date and looked at that number on my 2nd visit: 4904! (He's always covered them and they're quite pretty, true, but I would put a tire shop between me and the highway for sure.) In short, I suspect he's probably very conscientious in intent, but maybe just doesn't know stuff he hasn't encountered. Seems like he bought it, was told how to take care of it, and did. To the best of his knowledge. But yeah, I'm definitely wanting to know why that darco isn't there.


Wondering about calling a CG or two nearby and seeing if they have some seasoned RV guy who lives locally, who their seasonal or other campers can call on to fix stuff, and see if I can get someone like that to sell me an hour or so of time to go look it over pretty carefully. It's winterized and now also tarped, but I'm starting to think I should maybe do something like that.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:07 AM   #9
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You definitely want to make sure and go over it thoroughly.

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Old 02-07-2017, 01:25 PM   #10
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Steve...
Quote:
Here is what it looks like if the floor (OSB or plywood)and insulation is removed from the inside of the camper. Like John mentioned, pictures would help us figure it out.

Steve, unfortunately I can't at this time get photos - we are in the middle of an on/off 4-day snow event depending on the mood of the forecasters but... snow. So for now, when put together, the insulation goes under the wood framing, and the plywood or OSB floor slab goes over the framing, correct? Just so I can picture what's supposed to be there. And last (top to bottom) under that insulation would be the darco membrane, yes?

Also, while at it, a forum glitch question -- I found a mod thread that has photos I'd love to see for context (dinette removal) but all I see are blue X boxes where his photos should be. Other people must be seeing them, as there are comments about the photos. Is there a forum setting I need to check or uncheck that's blocking me from seeing photos -- these are not old ones that are likely to have been removed from their host places, but just a week or two old post. TIA.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:03 AM   #11
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OSB is not water proof. I have a 2001 2553 which has a full length black membrane. Any exposed wood is subject to water damage. When towing in the rain water will spray up under trailer getting everything wet. something don't sound right about that trailer.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:20 AM   #12
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I haven't yet approached the sellers about this, and I actually do have very positive feelings about them. I assume there's going to be some explanation (e.g., took off the membrane to get to something or whatever). Before proceeding further I'd have to know exactly why there isn't any in that place and would at the very least go back for a 4th visit and get under there in other areas too.


My question now is, if there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for the darco membrane to have been removed that doesn't indicate a problem, and it covers everywhere else, then can it be patched back in in some proper way?
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTW View Post

My question now is, if there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for the darco membrane to have been removed that doesn't indicate a problem, and it covers everywhere else, then can it be patched back in in some proper way?
Hi OTW,

Yes, the Darco missing can be replaced. I have bought the material before on my slide floor fix. That said, you and we need more info on how big or small a job that will be. And depending on where the missing piece is and how large it is, you may be able to use another form of vapor barrier. This really comes down to, how big is the missing piece.

The insulation missing is normal home style fiberglass batt type what was in there originally. That will work or other types of insulation.

The biggest concern is water damage if there is any. And until you know more about why the Darco is missing and if there is any wood damage, this is the open question.

The good news about the way the Sunlines where built, most anything in the camper can be fixed. It just takes more time and funding. Some of my repairs may have gone beyond "normal"... gosh I hope so... but all things can be fixed. We are just trying to express caution in case this is a water damage situation that you know going in eyes wide open and can maybe get a price concession if you still want to buy it.

This may turn out to be a simple explanation on why the Dacro and insulation is missing. Hope so.

And to your other question, the floor is build up is like this. Starting from the bottom and going up.
  • The steel trailer frame creates the load bearing base.
  • On top of the frame one large sheet of Darco was placed as a vapor barrier. Covered the entire camper outline.
  • Wood floor joists are placed over frame on top of the Darco
  • Fiberglass batt insualtion is installed between the floor joists.
  • OSB board wood decking, All one long piece, was attached to the joints.
  • Vinyl flooring or carpet add to the top of the floor.
  • The walls are then put on over top of the floor and the Darco is folded up onto the outside walls and stapled to the walls.
  • The camper siding is then put on over the Darco on the walls.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTW View Post
Steve...



Steve, unfortunately I can't at this time get photos - we are in the middle of an on/off 4-day snow event depending on the mood of the forecasters but... snow. So for now, when put together, the insulation goes under the wood framing, and the plywood or OSB floor slab goes over the framing, correct? Just so I can picture what's supposed to be there. And last (top to bottom) under that insulation would be the darco membrane, yes?

Also, while at it, a forum glitch question -- I found a mod thread that has photos I'd love to see for context (dinette removal) but all I see are blue X boxes where his photos should be. Other people must be seeing them, as there are comments about the photos. Is there a forum setting I need to check or uncheck that's blocking me from seeing photos -- these are not old ones that are likely to have been removed from their host places, but just a week or two old post. TIA.
Let's try this. The pictures I posted earlier were what was left once I pulled out the rotted plywood, the wet floor insulation and some of the rotted frame pieces. So, these new pictures show the replaced frame, the new insulation and the new plywood.

Post the link of the thread where the pictures that have the blue x boxes so I can check those out.

Also, we are getting snow tomorrow. I'm 15 minutes east of Foxwoods. Where in MA are you?

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Old 02-09-2017, 01:46 AM   #15
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John- That bottom-up list of the build order really helps a lot in understanding how it's strung together, thank you!
Sep- The photos you posted are a great visual. Between the two, it all makes perfect sense now.


Sep, the photos that became blue X boxes were on a thread, I think in the Mods category, having to do with pulling out the dinette. That is actually one of the mods I would need to do to make the 2553 work for me if FTing in it. I will see if I can find that thread and PM you the link to it or post it here. I'm probably close to 1.5 hrs. from Foxwoods.


I did call some CGs near there, and only reached one, who referred me to an RV dealership, they will only look at it inside, meaning it would have to be brought to them. That's logistically very difficult at the moment. I think first thing is to ask owner why the darco is missing in that spot. And of course with the new snow coming today... hmmm. Will have to figure this out but I'd want to make sure there isn't any more missing anywhere. Sure wish I'd looked better at the time!
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Old 02-09-2017, 02:59 AM   #16
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Sep- The edit button seems to have disappeared from my last post. Here is the thread that I THINK the blue x boxes were in (not a dinette replacement but where you pulled out a dinette bench box) - if so, then the photos are showing now. If not, then I have no clue where I saw the blue x boxes. I do think it was likely this one though.
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...air-17458.html
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Old 02-09-2017, 05:09 AM   #17
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At least now you know what to look for and negotiate the price accordingly. Another tool to use is a moisture meter. It can find hidden water leaks that are not obvious.

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Old 02-09-2017, 09:01 AM   #18
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It sounds to me like someone removed the OSB and insulation, probably to start a repair of torn material, and never finished. If there's no evidence of any water damage, it's not a terribly difficult fix. If it was me, I'd probably use some different materials for the repair.

To the best of my knowledge, Sunline always used a stem to stern, side to side, one piece layer of the Darco, followed by floor framing and insulation. Then they laid down the OSB decking.

My 2011 Cougar has similar construction except that the framing is aluminum.

Given that the Darco is intended to stop moisture penetration from the bottom, there would be no conceivable reason to omit it on a portion of the frame. Other manufacturers may have skimped on materials as you suggest, but Sunline did not. I'd be cautious of info like that unless it comes from a very reliable source.

The wheel wells above the tires would be a thin molded plastic. It's easily damaged if you have a flat, but also also easily repaired.

JohnB, the '99's had the Darco on all models as well. Jon will know for sure, but I would venture that Sunline started using the Darco in place of metal sheeting several years earlier.
Steve...my '95 and '98's both had the Darco underbellies for certain...ask me how I know! Janalee
P.S. I would certainly say walk away from this one!
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:45 AM   #19
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Thanks Janalee-- I am accumulating the new questions I want to ask the owner, including re the missing darco.
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