Propane tank holder/bracket?

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

Hi Frank and Frank,

Single axle campers should hold to about 10% tongue weight, I think. There is a difference between double axle and single axle loading.

jim

Hi Jim, not to get too far off topic why do you think there is a difference between the 10% stability factor between single, dual or even tripple axle travel trailers? The center of gravity concerns are the same. From a pure towing stablity point of view on the single axle TT's the higher tongue weights are even more stable towing straight as they do not have the dual tires to help hold the camper. We are not talking about a boat trailer with the wheels way in the back but a TT where the wheels are 10 to 15% behind the center of gravity to create the 10 to 15% tongue weight.



John

[frank_a]

I could look around for those John. What was the tank sitting on, wood?

I also found this thing (for 24 bucks) that I could get from Boat n RV Warehouse, but am unsure it would do the trick, or how it works: J RACK | Bonner Sports & RV

They don't have one in stock at their big store next town down from me, they would have to order it. Kinda handy having them so close though. I drive right by on my way to work and back home every day. Got my butyl tape there and vinyl screw covers this past week.

I need something to hold that propane tank down that's cheaper than 80 bucks right now. Just bought a spare tie and holder, that was pricey!

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

Frank

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Hi John,

I think there is a difference because of how the load is spread out. The single axle is set right at the 10%, or whatever, distance no matter the position of the trailer to the road. The double axle is set at the 10%, or whatever distance at the middle of the two axles. I was thinking the axle spread will move the 10% point forward or rearward as the road and the actual position of the TT in relation to the road. If the TT stayed level to the road then perhaps loading could be figured exactly but not when the weight is switched between the axles while traveling. JMO


Frank, You could make two angle rails for the bottle to set on. Then take allthread rod to fasten the tank to the rails. That is basically how most TTs mount anyway. Some are just fancier than others. Less weight and less money.

jim

[frank_a]

Good idea Jim, I'll figure sumpin out.

Just trimmed my poplar pieces down for the rear corner rebuild. Used a Ryobi planer for thickness and my trusty table saw for width. Got a good power miter saw for length. Once the dust settles from ripping for width, it's off I go to see how my new Bostitch stapler works, and see if I can figure out some way for all this to go back together. Everything was so rotted there was no way to tell how it goes together. I really don't want to have to pull the left side apart to see, so I'm gonna wing it. Pics later.

Frank

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

Hi John,

I think there is a difference because of how the load is spread out. The single axle is set right at the 10%, or whatever, distance no matter the position of the trailer to the road. The double axle is set at the 10%, or whatever distance at the middle of the two axles. I was thinking the axle spread will move the 10% point forward or rearward as the road and the actual position of the TT in relation to the road. If the TT stayed level to the road then perhaps loading could be figured exactly but not when the weight is switched between the axles while traveling. JMO

jim

Hi Jim

First maybe we need to make sure I'm understanding what you 1st stated.

Jim wrote:
Single axle campers should hold to about 10% tongue weight, I think. There is a difference between double axle and single axle loading.

What I was picking up on was that I thought you where stating is single axle TT's (campers) "should" be at the 10% area and that there is some other rating for dual axle or tripple axle. I am responding to that thought of the number of axle and what tongue weight should be. If I have misunderstood then need to step back and under stand the statement.

The 10% guide is the low end guide for TT tongue weight to allow a TT to tow down the highway and not end up in the start of a yawing sway condition. There is no mention to how many axles the camper has as the rule is the same as the problems are the same. For a camper that has internal loads that vary because people camp in them it is best to be north of that low end guide regardless of how many axles you have. The lighter the TT the worse the problem. A 20# propane tank going empty at camp will shift the loaded tongue weight down, a fridge full of food eaten at camp will change the tongue weight up or down pending where the fridge is, that full large pop cooler added inside the camper at the rear wall on the way to camp etc. the loading has the ability to change. If you sitting right on the 10% low end guide on a light single axle TT those 50# weight changes affect you more since the entire rig is lighter. 50# to a 1,200# tongue weight is not the same affect as 50# to a 250# tongue weight.

This is one reason why many recommend to shoot for the 13 to 15% range, not 10%. The shifting loads of the way we camp keeps us from getting into a problem area and not realizing it.

See this file from Dexter that talks about trailer design in general. There is no mention to how many axles the trailer has to create different tongue weight rules for the number of axles. The number of axles is driven by the weight of the trailer.

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1080235/f/Appli...te_Catalog.pdf

Now to your point of towing on level highway, going up hill or down hill, depending where the center of gravity of the camper is in the up and down direction (X direction) , just going up hill will shift some amount of tongue weight down again regardless of how many axles. If the center of gravity is 4 feet up off the floor in the camper it will affect the tongue weight more then if the CG is 2 feet off the floor. Since we cannot change the way a camper is built all we can do is load it to create a good tongue weight to work in all conditions. Again regardless of how many axles.

To your point on single axles to dual or tripple there is a shift in the point loading up into the TT frame by the number of hangers or axle mounts going up and down hills, no denying that. However we are talking decimal places in towing stability. The weight of the center of gravity is above the floor line so moving the tongue up and down on a single axle or dual axle is not going to change the % loaded tongue weight that much between single or multi axle unless you move the tongue height many feet up or down from level. I'm not saying tongue weight does not shift from high to low tongue I'm only saying the number of axles does not affect this much until you get many many inches of tongue movement. Remember the equalizer hanger is taking the twice the weight as the 2 end hangers on a set of tandems.

For a dual axle or tripple axle TT the center of the combination of the axles is used to figure when to place them to create the % tongue weight on the camper verses the single axle TT where it is the center of that 1 axle.

With all that said.....LOL my point is a TT with an 8% or other lower % with can whip out of control regardless if it has 1 or 3 axles. The 1 axle TT is lighter and the 3 axle is heavier but both suffer from the same yaw problem left to right resulting from trailer sway. The design guidelines for tongue weight % to create stable towing does not change for the number of axles. At least from all I have researched into this but I'm always open to listening and learning in case I messed up the learning along the way. It happens....and will happened again... So I asked.

John

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by frank_a

I could look around for those John. What was the tank sitting on, wood?

Frank, yes that is a wood base.

This is what my battery rack looked like


I had those 2 clamp rods left over from my PU for a 2nd tank. So to haul my 5#er around I created a wood adapter base. Plus the rods where for 20# tank and too long. The 2 x 8 base was from an old piece of pressure treated wood I sawed slits in it to fit the angle rails and then routed a groove in the top the diameter of the tank rim. Under the bottom was a length wise board so I was not pulling up on the ends of the 2 x 8 and crack them off plus I needed a filler strip to eat up more rod length. It also trapped the 2 x 8 from flying up off the angles.

The base sat down down on the angle, I could slide it left to right away from the battery, drop the tank on the base groove, slip the rod hangers on the tank and spun the wing nut tight.

To take the tank off I only unscrewed the wing nut 2 to 3 turns which was enough to take the clamp pressure off and then rotated the tank to the open part of the collar and popped the rod off. Then twisted/spun the tank the other way to get the 2nd rod off. I repeated the process to put the tank on. It's quick on and off. You are really not doing a bunch of unscrewing the wing nuts.

If this concept has more interest I have pics buried some where of the wood base and can post up to help the cause. In my case I had the left over wood, the left over rods. The paint and few wood screws where new. It was quick, portable and rock solid.

John

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Whew! JOhnB,

I think the single axle should be closer to the 10 to 13% and the double axle, or triple axle units can go fo 10% andr higher percentages. For axle capacity if for no other reason. I do feel the spread of the axles and greater capacity make percentages vary. In the end as long as the load is forward as required for safe travel then that is a good thing.

jim

[Sunline Fan]

Originally Posted by frank_a

I could look around for those John. What was the tank sitting on, wood?

I also found this thing (for 24 bucks) that I could get from Boat n RV Warehouse, but am unsure it would do the trick, or how it works: J RACK | Bonner Sports & RV

They don't have one in stock at their big store next town down from me, they would have to order it. Kinda handy having them so close though. I drive right by on my way to work and back home every day. Got my butyl tape there and vinyl screw covers this past week.

Frank, I believe that's the bracket you would have originally had if you had a propane/electric refrigerator from the factory and not the ice box. All Sunspots (with gas tanks) and all shorter Sunlines that only had one 20# tank on the tongue typically used this bracket. Dual tanks were an option, but I'm not sure it was on the Sunspot.

[JohnB]

Jim

Take this as a friendly camper caution: On a TT regardless of number of axles, because as you said, tongue loads do change due to different camping conditions. I caution you not to on purpose target a 10% loaded tongue especially on a light single axle camper. The smaller the camper the more pronounced the change in weights. A 10% tongue on a light TT can go up to 12% or down to 8 % from gear changes that can get moved and unrealized. An 8% loaded tongue will not go off into sway immediately but it will not take much of a wind gust or pot hole to set it off when your over 45 mph.

If you have a 3,000# TT with a 300# tongue 18 feet long, having 1 LP tank go empty up front (33#) and putting a filled pop cooler (~ 50#) on the back wall can have a negative effect = 8%. Targeting 13 to 15% allows more cushion to be built in and more towing stability in non optimum towing conditions.

Thanks

John

[frank_a]

Originally Posted by Sunline Fan

Frank, I believe that's the bracket you would have originally had if you had a propane/electric refrigerator from the factory and not the ice box. All Sunspots (with gas tanks) and all shorter Sunlines that only had one 20# tank on the tongue typically used this bracket. Dual tanks were an option, but I'm not sure it was on the Sunspot.

Excellent. I think I will get one, and we'll see how it works.

Back to work on finishing up my right rear corner rebuild.

Thanks!

Frank

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Jim

Take this as a friendly camper caution: On a TT regardless of number of axles, because as you said, tongue loads do change due to different camping conditions. I caution you not to on purpose target a 10% loaded tongue especially on a light single axle camper. The smaller the camper the more pronounced the change in weights. A 10% tongue on a light TT can go up to 12% or down to 8 % from gear changes that can get moved and unrealized. An 8% loaded tongue will not go off into sway immediately but it will not take much of a wind gust or pot hole to set it off when your over 45 mph.

If you have a 3,000# TT with a 300# tongue 18 feet long, having 1 LP tank go empty up front (33#) and putting a filled pop cooler (~ 50#) on the back wall can have a negative effect = 8%. Targeting 13 to 15% allows more cushion to be built in and more towing stability in non optimum towing conditions.

Thanks

John

JohnB, Duly noted.