Power Converter Upgrade

[JohnB]

Hi Tom,

No worries on tagging on.

Sorry about your converter issue. We all learn from these things. It happens. Learn from it, become better because of it and move on.

And yes, I have no issue what so ever with my PD converter. It works very well and when boondocking with the genny she will kick into boost with no problem if the battery is down enough to need it. I would for sure do it again.

You will be a happy camper with the PD.

Good luck

John

[Tom39]

Thanks Guys for the help,

I am going to have to modify the Centurion CS3000 housing quite a bit. The PD converter is 4" wider than the fried unit. I have pulled some measurements and it looks as if it is going to be tight but should have about 1.5" of room to spare if I shift some things around back there.
On a positive note, I have located the reason for the loss of heat to the bath vent. During installation, it appears that when they routed the duct they pinched it between the shore power storage box and the gas line for the fridge causing it to tear and thus heat my fridge, fresh water tank and power converter.
Anyway, I am going to order the converter tonight and will post a final update with write-up and pics.

Thanks again,
Tom G.

[Tom39]

One last thing,

There is an 70amp version that is the same size for $10 more. Is there any reason that I would need more than the 60amp and opt for the 70amp? Also there is this dongle thing that attaches to these converters - Progressive Dynamics PD 9200 Series Pendant. Is this needed?

Thanks Again
Tom G

[JohnB]

The pendant is a good thing, get it. It plugs in with a phone cord jack into the converter. It blinks at different charge rates so you knw what mode it is charging at and you can press the button to force it into different charge modes.

The 70 amp in place of the 60. Unless you are going to get hard core into battery charging and use like a no 2 or no 0 wire short in length and direct to the battery along with high amp fuses you cannot use all the 60 amp to charge with. The no 6 wire we have from the factory limits the charge to be the most of ~ 25 to maybe 28 amps into 2 grp 27 batteries.

In my 60 amp case, up to 30 amps is available to charge my 2 batteries, ( they never pulls that much) and the other 30 is to run the camper at the same time (which never runs that much on my LED lights.) Sunline even put a 30 amp circuit breaker by the battery area in the charge and draw line. So all I can take from the battery or put into it is 30 amps. My slide is separate on another 30 amp breaker.

Unless you do some higher end upgrades you will not be able to use all 70 amps even if you have it.

Hope this helps

John

[Tom39]

Hello again everyone,

Well here is how things went with the installation of the new converter.

I looked at many different mounting locations but in the end it came down to not wanting to change the overall design of the TT or impact a storage space for the new converter where I would always be wondering if it is getting enough air to keep it cool. So my goal was to keep the original converter location and modify the housing to accommodate the install. The only problem was that I could not go any wider and the depth was limited to a maximum of 9”. So here is what I came up with.

Try as I might, the Progressive Dynamics converter was not going to fit. The converter though only 3.6”H X 8”L X 9”W would need breathing room and at max I could not get that room in my space without having to reroute my gas line. So I went with the 60A PowerMax Boondocker PM4B-60 It has a 2 year warranty and from what I could find out about it seems to do what it claims. One down side is that it does not come with the dongle option but at 7” wide it fit the need and the space I have to work with. Time will tell how well it holds up, but someone has to be the guinea pig and it might as well be me.

Here are some picks of how things went.

1. View of power center pulled out with converter removed. Notice the burn mark where it decided 220vac was more than it could take.
2. Original housing measurement 5.4"
3. New housing measurement 9". Made possible by cutting of back and bending 22ga flat metal and riveting into place.
4. New converter outfitted with rubber feet from a Honda EU3000i generator and the 1st attempt at a mounting bracket. I also added a rubber flange to isolate intake of fresh air and avoid recirculating within the housing.
5. Housing with cutout for air intake and computer coolong fan grill to keep out critters. Also installed to housing is 120vac power receptacle to plug in unit.
6. Unit installed, secured, plugged in and wired to 12vdc board.

Continued.........

[Tom39]

7. Side view with converter installed and receptacle box tack welded to housing.
8. Centrally located ground bar.
9. All wired up and ready for testing.
10. All testing went well and mounted back to it's original location.
11. Cover panel installed. One thing to note: I added aditional dbl 15a breaker. This gave me the ability to dedicate the converter to it's own and not have to share it with the general purpose 120vac outlets in the TT and leaving one breaker open for future use.
12. Like I was never there.

Lastly, I would like to thank everyone for all their help and suggestion and I will keep you updated on the performance of the new converter.

Thanks Again,
TOM G.

[EMD_Driver]

Excellent work!

[Trailblazer]

Looks good. Very nice work!

[Sunline Fan]

Very nice! Like the OEM look!

[JohnB]

Tom,

Nice job and thanks for post the pic's and process. Now others who are in your same space constraint problem have another option.

Thanks for sharing

John

[Lost Hunter]

Wow, really great looking job.

[RDonald3]

Hi John, thank you for the post. The only question about your upgrade is you have the CS6000xl what amperage was the original converter? I have a CS4500 45 amp and looking to do an upgrade also due to malfunction. Not sure if I should go with a PD 45 amp or a 60 amp? Thanks.

[JohnB]

Hi RDonald3,

Between my 2 Sunlines, I had both the CS6000 and the CS6000xl. And both of them where 60amp.

The T2499 (~ 27 ft) being a smaller camper had the same amperage converter as our big T310SR. (32 ft).

There are pros and maybe con's with going with the 60 over the 45. Some pros are, more current available on the 60amp in case you running the original 921 light bulbs and you need to do a lot of battery charging at the same time. ~ 25 amps to the battery charge and 35 amps for everything else running in the camper

If you are a power miser kind of camper, converted to LED's then the 45amp may cover you needs as the loads are a whole lot less.

If you are looking to do some serious high power battery charging and are going to rewire the camper to allow it, then the 60 amp can allow that to happen. In the standard Sunline battery charging setup in the year 2000 to 2007 campers at least, the best you are going to get is ~ 20 to 25 amps going into the battery. The small charging wire they use will not allow a whole lot more. That and the 30 amp breaker they put in the charge line. I say year 2000, even many older campers may have the same issue.

If you are thinking of going the Progressive Dynamics converter like I did, you would need to mount the converter real close to the battery and run very heavy wire to get the voltage drop down real low and then you can actually use all of the converter to high power battery charging above the standard 20 to 25 amps.

What are your needs and what year camper do you have?

Price wise, often times there is not a large price difference between 45 and 60 converters. 60 amp gives you more options if you can take advantage of it.

Hope this helps

John

[RDonald3]

Thanks John, Yes the reason I was asking is because their was not much of a difference in cost between the 45 and 60 amp converters.

I have an 2000 T267SR 28' that I haven't done any upgrades to. I also have that 30 amp inline breaker you were talking about. As far as needs was just looking into a better replacement since American Enterprises does not seem the way to go. If one of their units could even be found. The trailer has been great until now. And undecided about doing any upgrades due to wanting to go up to a 5th wheel.

I'm thinking I'm going to just replace with PD 45amp. I have plenty of space next to the Centurion housing which is under a bottom bunk along with my fresh water tank and water heater. Sounds packed but plenty of room for the new converter. I won't have to do very much mod's just to add the DC power display and a status remote pendant.

Thanks again John and yes very helpful to me.
Robert

[12john12]

Hello John B, my name is Arnulfo and I have the CS6000xl model and to replace it only im not good with electrical problems. it be great to get American`s phone number please to order the converter and thanks for the welcome to the club.

[12john12]

[QUOTE=12john12;132573]Hello John B, my name is Arnulfo and I have the CS6000xl model and need to replace it, only im not good with electrical problems. It would be great to get American`s phone number please and to order the converter, and thanks for the welcome to the club.[/QUOTE]

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by 12john12

Hello John B, my name is Arnulfo and I have the CS6000xl model and to replace it only im not good with electrical problems. it be great to get American`s phone number please to order the converter and thanks for the welcome to the club.

Hi Arnulfo,

It seems American is may be having site issues or is no longer. This is the site I get for them which is not their site
American Enterprises, Inc.: AMERICAN POWER CONVERTERS, CENTURION, ...-Openfos

The links do not seem to work for me, but there is a phone number there. I have not talked with American since 2007 time frame. I do not believe they make the same model you ahve anymore. We had another member buy one it it was different, but they did get it to work.

Here is another suggestion and I know these folks, they ahve always done good for me and others here.

They are offering this converter as a replacement.
Boondocker 4 Stage Power Center 60 Amp (BPC4-60)

I myself do not know that converter, the spec's on it are good, but I cannot speak the the converter itself. However Best Converter is a stand up business and treated me fairly and knowledgeably in the past. I'm sure if you call them they will answer all your questions.

When you go to change the converter, for any brand, heads up, you are going to see 2 kinds of white wires in the panel and they are very different.

The 12 volt DC white is the the - 12 volt terminal that goes to the battery as 12 volt negative. These wires are usually stranded wire.

The 120 volt AC white is the AC neutral and has nothing to do with the -12 Volt DC negative. The 120 volt AC white is usually solid wire.

Point: Do not mix the 12 volt DC negative white wires with the 120 volt AC white AC neutral.

If you do mix these up, you will trip any GFIC ground fault circuit you plug into.

If this is too much for you, do you have a buddy who is an electrician? For those trained in electrical, these are pretty simple systems. Odds exist there will need to be some level of re-wiring when you change the converter as the exact one you have now is no longer made. Not a hard thing to do, just need to know how electrical things work.

Hope this helps and good luck. Let us know how this comes out

John

[12john12]

[QUOTE=JohnB;132578]Hi Arnulfo,

It seems American is may be having site issues or is no longer. This is the site I get for them which is not their site
American Enterprises, Inc.: AMERICAN POWER CONVERTERS, CENTURION, ...-Openfos

The links do not seem to work for me, but there is a phone number there. I have not talked with American since 2007 time frame. I do not believe they make the same model you ahve anymore. We had another member buy one it it was different, but they did get it to work.

Here is another suggestion and I know these folks, they ahve always done good for me and others here.

They are offering this converter as a replacement.
Boondocker 4 Stage Power Center 60 Amp (BPC4-60)

I myself do not know that converter, the spec's on it are good, but I cannot speak the the converter itself. However Best Converter is a stand up business and treated me fairly and knowledgeably in the past. I'm sure if you call them they will answer all your questions.

When you go to change the converter, for any brand, heads up, you are going to see 2 kinds of white wires in the panel and they are very different.

The 12 volt DC white is the the - 12 volt terminal that goes to the battery as 12 volt negative. These wires are usually stranded wire.

The 120 volt AC white is the AC neutral and has nothing to do with the -12 Volt DC negative. The 120 volt AC white is usually solid wire.

Point: Do not mix the 12 volt DC negative white wires with the 120 volt AC white AC neutral.

If you do mix these up, you will trip any GFIC ground fault circuit you plug into.

If this is too much for you, do you have a buddy who is an electrician? For those trained in electrical, these are pretty simple systems. Odds exist there will need to be some level of re-wiring when you change the converter as the exact one you have now is no longer made. Not a hard thing to do, just need to know how electrical things work.

Hope this helps and good luck. Let us know how this comes out

John[/Q Thank you for all the help you`ve shown me in such a short time span. I`ve been struggling with this issue and starving for some knowledge, I work in an International Trade Zone and that makes it real hard to get help. You have a picture of my converter on your blog. On the top upper right fuse panel box the connection was rusted and melted into the frame. My 30 amp circuit breaker pops off so I removed it and it looks as if it arcs the connecter it sits on was rough so I used sand paper to clean it off and it helped. I was told to move the breaker further down so it can make better contact. I was also informed to connect my upper fuse connection on both right and left to the lower case because it is not being used. Do you think that would help me ? If not then I ask you this John are the dimensions between the CS6000xl and the Boondock 4 stage power center the same? If that is the case I will purchase it and have an electrician install it for me.

[JohnB]

Hi Arnulfo,

The 120 V AC breaker connections in the American converter are not the greatest. They can be loose in the plastic backing and when you push the breaker in place, the metal buss bar flexes around and does not fully engage with the breaker. This can cause a loose connection and yes, create heat from it. I agree getting the breaker in tight is a good thing and a need.

To the part of your question on the fuse panel area,

I was also informed to connect my upper fuse connection on both right and left to the lower case because it is not being used. Do you think that would help me ? If not then I ask you this John are the dimensions between the CS6000xl and the Boondock 4 stage power center the same? If that is the case I will purchase it and have an electrician install it for me.

I'm not exactly following this question. The fuses are part of the 12 volt DC circuits.

Let make sure we are talking the correct converter as I had 2 different American ones in my post.

This the 2004 model CS6000XL


This is the prior 2004 model CS6000


Which one do you have and explain your question again. I'm not following what you are referring to move and how it would help you. What problem are you having that needs help?

Now to if the Boondocker will fit in your cabinet, that I do not know. If you measure the size of your existing converter wood casing hole, left to right and up and down (with the cover off) and then the depth of the converter from the face of the wood cabinet to the back, then call Best Converter who I linked you to and ask them. They have done a lot of this and can help check if the book docker will fit in the dimensions you have now.

Hope this helps.

John

PS My internet connection is going to be very poor here over the next few days. If you post, I may not be able to get back to up until I get and good internet connection which may be after Monday next week.

[RDonald3]

Hi, JohnB and 12john12. I can confirm for you that American Enterprises Inc has gone out of business. Leaving here in southern California, I drove to where they were suppose to be. They are no longer around.