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Old 02-11-2012, 07:04 PM   #1
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Expansion tank mod.. With pictures

Ok, so the mod isn't done yet.. I have everything I need, but it's a tad too cold outside to do the work yet. Once I start, it won't take long to do!

Here's a picture of what I'm installing:



It's a 2 gallon expansion tank from Lowes. I bought a 3/4" threaded coupling, 3/4" to 1/2" reducer, a 1/2" threaded pipe nipple, a 20" 1/2x3/8 faucet supply line and a PEX to 3/8" valve.

I'll put a tee in the fresh water supply line and connect the tee to it. There's room near the city water inlet, to mount the tank and plumb it into the system.

The expansion tank will serve two purposes. First, it will help keep the pump from cycling on and off so much. Second, I will no longer need to be sure the water heater has a sufficient amount of air inside it. If the water heater doesn't have enough air in it, the pressure created by the heat can cause the relief valve to open and release the excess pressure.

I will take more pics, during and after the install...
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:50 PM   #2
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Gary,

That air pocket and heat expansion in a water bound HW heater is for sure real. There are times I have to carry water to camp. On these trips I finally figured out what was causing the water weeping from the HW heater saftey relief valve so fast. Didn't know if it was getting weak or not. So I screwed a gauge in.





A yup, all the air cushion is gone. I have found that traveling with fresh water and the heater filled will dissolve the air pocket all that much faster. So now at camp before I turn on the pump, I open the faucet to make sure all pressure is gone. I then lift the relief valve and drain down the HW heater just a little to make sure it is below the relief valve to recreate the air pocket enough to not have the issues. I only need to let about a coffee mug full out.

Nothing like testing your camper piping with up to 150 psi water pressure.

That is what is happening as the pressure is building until the relief valve weeps with no air pocket and the HW heater on. This is another reason we switch the heater off when not using it during the day/night.

That tank you have is probably good for about 4 toilet flushes before the pump ever kicks in. For sure 2.

John
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:44 AM   #3
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Nice mod. We added a smaller one to our rig several years ago and won't be without it. Wish I had installed a bigger one. Maybe the next time we are down in the US we might pickup a bigger one like this at Lowes. I am looking forward to seeing the completed install and the reports back of how long it takes before the pump cycles on and off with this size tank.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:29 PM   #4
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I have a 2 gallon tank and get about 4 or 5 flushes before the pump comes on. I like the steady water flow and non-continuous pump running but consider this: When the pump comes on like any electric motor it draws peak amperage, more than the amperage it takes to run. With so few starts it's a real battery saver. That's the biggest feature.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:49 PM   #5
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I got it done this afternoon, thanks to the agreeable weather! Please forgive the crappy cell phone pics... I forgot the camera..

I had originally planned on mounting it to the floor, but that would have blocked access to the back of the converter and breaker box. Under the shower, was some 3/4' OSB and the perfect spot for mounting the tank. I used two pieces of pipe strap and some of the square head screws from the 299SR. When I drew the screws down (Or is it up?) the straps got very tight. They hold the tank very securely!



I mounted the tank, so that I would have easy access to the air valve stem.



I then triple checked, to make sure I cut the city water inlet pipe and not the black tank flush pipe... I pulled the braided line into position where I thought it would be best and cut the line for the tee.



I still have a bunch of the blue PEX from the 299 and used some on this mod. I crimped the tee on one end of the piece and the new valve on the other.



I then crimped the new piece into the existing line.



I hooked the braided line to the valve and it's done! (Except for cleaning up the antifreeze.)



I left the valve turned off, until I get the chance to check for leaks in the PEX and in my water heater mod. I'm looking forward to experiencing it in operation!
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:12 PM   #6
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Looking good Gary.

OK curiosity got me, what is the little pilot thermocouple looking cooper tube running along the wall in the back?

Or is that the solid copper ground wire from the converter to the frame?

John
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB View Post

Or is that the solid copper ground wire from the converter to the frame?

John
You were close John!

That's the solid copper ground wire from the breaker box, to the frame...
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:14 AM   #8
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That looks great, very nice and thanks for the pictures. I'm thinking of adding a tank, but hadn't thought of a "regular one". I like it.

What pressure are you going to set the diaphram at? Do you think the diaphram pressure will vary much with big changes in altitude (sea level to 10000 feet) and have to be adjusted?

Again thanks for the idea.

T
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod Osier View Post
That looks great, very nice and thanks for the pictures. I'm thinking of adding a tank, but hadn't thought of a "regular one". I like it.

What pressure are you going to set the diaphram at? Do you think the diaphram pressure will vary much with big changes in altitude (sea level to 10000 feet) and have to be adjusted?

Again thanks for the idea.

T

Thanks Ted..

The instructions that came with the tank said to pressurize it two PSI below where your pump comes on. I haven't even tried it out yet.. I'm waiting on some warmer weather.

I did start a pressure test a few minutes ago. I put some antifreeze on the suction side of the pump and turned it on. I bled off what air was in the system and then turned the pump off. I'll check it again tomorrow, to see if it still has pressure. I did check for leaks and found none!
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:42 AM   #10
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John, in the t-2499, is there room above the pump for a big tank like that or should I put one that's the size of a 2 liter soda bottle?? Chuck
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:20 AM   #11
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Very worthwhile mod, have done it on every camper I've had. Nicely done.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:33 PM   #12
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Dumb question, but does the expansion tank "T" in anywhere after the water pump?

Looks like something I should do too! Haven't even camped in ours yet but I love modifying things

I keep making the to-do list longer!

Don
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:34 PM   #13
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You can tee it into any part of the cold side of the fresh water system. Mine is in the cold water line, just inside of where the city water inlet is...
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuffer101 View Post
John, in the t-2499, is there room above the pump for a big tank like that or should I put one that's the size of a 2 liter soda bottle?? Chuck
Hi Chuck,

H'mm in the T2499 I see at least 2 locations maybe 3.

Above the pump in the peg board closet is one spot. May only be able to get a 1 gallon tank in due to the diameter. See here. This is after my variable speed pump upgrade I did.


Under the kitchen sink may be the best spot. Pull the draws out under the sink and look in. There is a lot of room right there. A 2 gallon one may well fit. See some pics of that area. This was for hooking up a water filter spigot but you can see the room.








Or under the couch.




I mad a mini Dirt Devil parking garage in the spot.






A 1 gallon tank might fit where the Dirt Devil is located.

Behind the sink draws may be the best spot. The cold water pipe is right there to tie into.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:20 PM   #15
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Looks great Gary, sorry for hijacking the thread on you. Thanks John, I'll have to look under the sink.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:00 AM   #16
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Morning Chuck,

That is what makes this forum so great, nobody gets their hairs ruffled when someone asks questions. Your post was related to the original topic so it "fit" right in. If a moderator felt that it should have been in a new thread, well, it would have been moved, with an explanation why it was moved.

Our forum is here to be very social and helpful, and I think we are just that.

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Old 03-11-2012, 05:33 PM   #17
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Got to test the mod with water today.. No leaks and it works great!
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