Adding Shock Absorbers - Sunline SR model - Page 2

**Sunline Fan** · 01-07-2011, 01:30 AM

Another thing, the leaf spring looks like it's curved up in the center, opposing the downward normal swoop curve. I know a bit of flattening is OK, but this looks to me like they are almost overloaded. When you hit bumps on these wonderful MI roads, I think you'd suffer more severe spring wrap (where the axle is rotating on the springs, bending the spring into a wave shape momentarily). This might be part of the reason why you're going through shocks. Perhaps suggest to them to upgrade to heavier duty springs when they have to replace the shocks again. I agree that the shock angle isn't very effective, but it shouldn't be breaking so much.

Jon

ihsolutions · 01-07-2011, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Jeff

Woooow... Are they Lippert Axles? Or did they just make the frame? I know I had my go around with Al-Ko and right now Dexter is the leader in my book.

How long was it you had that when that happened? Had to of been not welded right from day 1.

John

John,

This is all Lippert equipment. My coach has a 16,000# GVWR and the standard axles it comes with are 7,000# Lippert. There was an option package, not publicized, where you get an upgrade to 8,000# axles along with 3.75" drum brakes for a reasonable price, which I added to my order. The standard 7,000# axles have a curved axle seat such as the one in your pictures. The 8,000# model however goes to this design that I've got.

The coach was less than three months old when this happened. The only reason I even became aware of it was I was seeing an overload error on my Prodigy. After a little inspection I found the brake wires dangling, unconnected, as the axle spinning in the u-bolts had torn the wires completely off as you might expect.

While the very friendly guy from Lippert was replacing the axle I questioned the design. Seems like a lot of weight, and twisting force, to rely on a couple small pieces of steel welded to the axle. He stated that on the axles 8,000# and up, this is the design they use, because a more conventional, curved axle saddle will crush the hallow axle tube. I can't argue with that, because I lack the expertise to do so.

Jon, to your point about the leaf springs, this is a problem that many Bighorn owners are having. Over time the leaf springs flatten completely. My second set is already starting to flatten, and this, added to the shock absorber issues, and general doubt as to the integrity of my suspension, have me leaning towards the Mor/Ryde system. There, no axles, no springs, and hopefully no problems!

Viking · 01-07-2011, 05:15 PM

John,
As I was looking at pictures and the space restrictions for mounting shocks, I remembered the lever action shocks. They were used on many, if not most cars at one time. I could not help thinking that if there were modern versions of lever action shocks, retrofitting to TTs might be a lot easier.
FWIW,
Roar

**JohnB** · 01-07-2011, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihsolutions

While the very friendly guy from Lippert was replacing the axle I questioned the design. Seems like a lot of weight, and twisting force, to rely on a couple small pieces of steel welded to the axle. He stated that on the axles 8,000# and up, this is the design they use, because a more conventional, curved axle saddle will crush the hallow axle tube. I can't argue with that, because I lack the expertise to do so.

Jeff

Man, what happened to you for sure should not have. I remember you took the upgraded axles.

Thanks for the note on the 8K and up Lippert axle seats. I'm trying to do some more digging but can't find the right Dexter and Alko axle pic of the 8 and 10K and up axle seats. Now you have me curious. I know my 6,000# ones have a full rolled plate laying on the axle to spread the load.

If I find anything I'll report back

Thanks

**JohnB** · 01-07-2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking

John,
As I was looking at pictures and the space restrictions for mounting shocks, I remembered the lever action shocks. They were used on many, if not most cars at one time. I could not help thinking that if there were modern versions of lever action shocks, retrofitting to TTs might be a lot easier.
FWIW,
Roar

Thanks Roar. I had to go look them up Apple Hydraulics: Shock absorbers

OK now I know what your talking about. I do not remember them on our 1950's Chevy truck we had on the farm. Good truck, straight 6 and my gosh simple.... I do remember the master brake cylinder was under the drivers floor mat. Why that memory just flew in??? good question.

My 2 new shorter Monroe Magnums showed up yesterday. Now just need the weather to cooperate. I may make the brackets in the shed if at least gets up in the high 20's tomorrow. We are snow covered again...

Viking · 01-08-2011, 09:21 AM

John,
Yes, we are covered again too, with the white crap as Kitty calls it, and we dipped into the single digits last night.
I don't see a picture on the Apple Hydraulics site of the Armstrong dampers I have on the rear axle on my car. The lay out on that would work very well on a trailer, but it does not look like they are selling any new ones. They just have a rebuilding service.
Many cars were converted to telescopic shocks, as the lever action got a bad reputation, but I can tell you one example of where the telescopic conversion did not work out well at all.
When I was driving a taxi, it was a Russian Volga, the owner had the rear axle converted to telescopic. A few times I experienced "axle tramp" so bad, I had to come to a complete stop. Never happened again after going back to the lever arm shock absorbers.
Roar

**JohnB** · 01-30-2011, 06:53 PM

This weekend the weather cooperated enough that I could work on finishing the shock install. My concrete pad outside the shed was dry and the weather was suppose to reach 34F on Saturday and Sunday was to be clear as well so I took advantage of the situation. Put on my Carhart bid overalls and heavy jacket and out I went....

This took me 2 days to finish up. I also had to complete stiffening up the end spring hangers before I mounted the front shocks. I’ll make a separate post on the hanger work but you will see some of it here. This hanger work also raised the camper 5/8” and I needed to have that done before I set the distance on the shock mount with these short shocks. The need for the height stemed from my axle upgrade 2 years ago and adding the Dexter EZ flex upgrade on an Alko rigid equalizer setup. Between upgrading to a 6,000# axles and the EZ flex I lost fender well clearance by 1 1/4". When I did the EZ flex I redid the center hanger and gained back 5/8” that made it workable and today I gained back another 5/8” to get back to where I started. (yes almost 2 years later....

, hey, I always had more important stuff to do (and camping

)and there there is "work"...)

So here are the new shorter front shocks. They are the same diameter as the longer rear ones and they are mounted on the same angle so the shock cushion rate between the 2 axles will be the same.

Here is the new front shock bracket clamped in place. It is a piece of 3 x 3 x 1/4 angle iron trimed down on one leg. This matches the 3” I beam frame well and is plenty strong enough.

Here you can see the lower mount. I welded on a piece of 1/2” sch 40 pipe onto the U bolt plate. It has a perfect ID for a 5/8” bolt that is the size of the shock rubber mount.

I had a surprise over night… Woke up Sunday morning and we went to Church. Oh great, it snowed…..

So after Church I shoveled and broom swept and back at it. When the sun came out later it melted the rest but was wet so I'm glad I swept it ealry. It reach 38F

Here we are mounted, no tires. The top bracket is welded on. I was going to bolt it on however my I beam lower flange stiffening gusset prohibited me from getting a nut on the outside flange bolts. Plus I would have to right angle drill the holes under the spring which is not fun. Those black lines are end of stroke (bottom line) and this higher one, is mid stroke. With no tires on the axle is just hanging lower the way I had the bottle jacks.

Here we are with the tires on the ground and all weight on the suspension. The stroke of the shock is right on the mid point of travel.

This is the door side

Here is the slide side.

So now I have all 4 shocks. YEH!!! Now I just need some good weather to go test them out and see how the frame oscillation is after going over a bump. I’ll report back from the road test once it ever comes to pass.... with all the white stuff still around

. Is it spring yet…..

Hope this helps someone in the future.

John

Trailblazer · 01-30-2011, 08:07 PM

As always John, a Great write up and Great work! Looking forward to hear the report of the results after the first tow.

kanyonkitty · 01-31-2011, 07:22 AM

As usual John, you have done a great job and did such a good post that anyone wishing to do this mod would be able to do it.

UM, your test tow, well your right, it's gonna have to wait, a bit more "white crap", it's not white stuff it's WHITE CRAP. OH and then the joy of ice too boot. You might have to settle for just going out in the rig and jumping around a bit to see how that feels until you can get out on the road.

Kitty

Thankfully our school system has some sort of rules that makes it impossible for us to go past a certain date in June no matter how many days we miss due to bad weather. So, OK, I can hang out at home and get paid, I don't have a problem with that. BUT, I still hate the WHITE CRAP.

matti · 01-31-2011, 09:23 AM

Great photos John, Looks like I will be getting out my welder as soon as this snow goes away

**JohnB** · 01-31-2011, 06:21 PM

Thanks for the kind words folks. Hope it helped someone along the way.

Yes Kitty a wintry mix is heading our way. Knowing central OH we will most likely not get out at all in February...

The weather in February has always been so rotten ever since we started our RV adventures we have never made it out. However that never stopped the Boy Scouts and I from camping.... About do for a Klondike campout right about now. Need more of those Polar Bear certificates....

kanyonkitty · 02-01-2011, 09:59 AM

Hey John,

Ya might just have to sit back, put your heels up and enjoy a "Klondike Bar"

**JohnB** · 02-01-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanyonkitty

Hey John,

Ya might just have to sit back, put your heels up and enjoy a "Klondike Bar"

After looking outside today.... more like an ice “pop” sickle.... Everything is coated with ice... A winter wonderland for sure.

Actually have not had a Klondike bar is a really long time. They are good! The subliminal advertising is working....

**JohnB** · 03-25-2011, 09:10 PM

Well last weekend I was able to go camping and try out the new shocks. Amazing what 1 week can do. Now it's back in the 30's again.... So here is the report.

I did not really feel a big difference to any difference in the truck. But again with this 1 ton suspension it held this trailer very well to begin with. The biggest difference was in the TT. I remember vividly the constant frame oscillations of this long camper (32 feet) every time I went over a bump. It would make full cycles up and down at least 5 to 8 times before it would settle out. And that in the truck mirrors was very unnerving seeing the camper flex like that. Well I’m here to report that is just about all gone. About 1 oscillation, maybe 2 at the most and that is it. And the pot holes and crumbled up road from the winter sure gave me a good test.

This seems to line up with what Clarkldc (Larry) told me his did on his T2499 last fall. One bump and that was it, smoothed right out.

So I’m a happy camper and glad I did this upgrade. The plan is to keep this camper a good long time and taking the flex out of it over the miles of towing I’m sure will help it’s longevity.

Hope this helps someone contemplating on doing this. Do it!

John

matti · 03-26-2011, 04:29 AM

Still waiting for warmer weather to do this

clarkldc · 03-26-2011, 08:30 AM

John,

You did a great looking job on those shocks. Your job was much more complex than mine, since I did the axle flip and used the Dexter Shock Kit. I guess that doing the job in the fall (late summer) when the temperatures were HOT were better than in the thirties. Glad to hear that the results of your upgrade were consistant with what I told you and confirmed that I was not just imagining the oscillation damping. You know some times we might just think it is better after we spend so much time and effort doing the upgrade.

Happy Camping,
Larry

**JohnB** · 06-04-2011, 05:38 PM

Wanted to report back on how the shocks have worked out. One word "Great"!!!!

I am very pleased with the dampening in TT frame consolations. We have been out 4 times now with them and the road to a few of the camps is pretty beat up due to the winter.

I really only see 1 oscillation going over a bump. That's it. Before this long camper would whip up and down at least 6 plus times before it would start to die down.

All that whipping flexing the siding, inside paneling, frame and everything else can't be good long term.

Any one contemplating doing this upgrade, yes it is worth it.

Thanks

John

matti · 06-04-2011, 09:37 PM

Great to hear that John. I did not get around to doing that yet with all the other things I wanted to take care of but I did replace the slide topper,bottom seal Maxair install,entire roof maintenance including the topper with new tape,recaulked all the windows & doors & seams,repacked the wheel bearings & the list went on & on. Went out week before Memorial Day & all is well. when I get back in the country we are going to NC for 3 weeks. Great to be back on the road again