TV help

Janalee · 03-24-2018, 06:36 PM

Hi friends...Just checking systems in my "new" 1995 t1950...Is it necessary to have a battery installed in order to operate the 12V receptacle and tv booster even though you are plugged in to AC and convertor working properly? I don't believe I have ever before been without a battery onboard so I can"t answer why I am not receiving power to them...My nephew brought his ladder and I checked the connections on the antenna and they were badly corroded which explains why I couldn't receive ANY signal...now cleaned and sprayed and tv signal works!.. he put a temporary jumper line from the 12V battery cable connection to another fuse line in the convertor to test it and yes, they both worked..so it seems I really do need a battery after all--is this correct?Janalee

Ghostlee93 · 03-24-2018, 08:18 PM

I am new to my 1989 sunline satellite but I am wondering how you are using the antenna? Does it connect to the digital box? Asking because I was under the impression that the older antennas we're outdated after the signal switch that happened a few years back. It was actually one of the things I planned on removing but not if it can still be of use. I apologise for not answering your question but like I said I haven't had mine long (about two weeks)

j52wf · 03-24-2018, 09:14 PM

The older antennas will still pick up the new digital signal. You have to use a newer tv with a digital tuner. The older analog televisions will no longer work.

mainah · 03-25-2018, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostlee93

I am new to my 1989 sunline satellite but I am wondering how you are using the antenna? Does it connect to the digital box? Asking because I was under the impression that the older antennas we're outdated after the signal switch that happened a few years back. It was actually one of the things I planned on removing but not if it can still be of use. I apologise for not answering your question but like I said I haven't had mine long (about two weeks)

No it does not matter if it's digital or analog the antenna does not care. Winegaurd makes a "Wingman" that will attach to the older antennas it does not change anything it only makes it more efficient the new TV transmitters output less power.

Janalee · 03-25-2018, 07:54 AM

Hey guys...this did not answer MY question...is the tv antenna booster dependent on an actual 12v battery installed and not the 12v coming from the convertor? My booster light is not on--I don't have a battery as yet..Just curious..Thank you..Janalee

Janalee · 03-25-2018, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j52wf

The older antennas will still pick up the new digital signal. You have to use a newer tv with a digital tuner. The older analog televisions will no longer work.

Not true! The older tvs and the older antennas DO still work!

mainah · 03-25-2018, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janalee

Hi friends...Just checking systems in my "new" 1995 t1950...Is it necessary to have a battery installed in order to operate the 12V receptacle and tv booster even though you are plugged in to AC and convertor working properly? I don't believe I have ever before been without a battery onboard so I can"t answer why I am not receiving power to them...My nephew brought his ladder and I checked the connections on the antenna and they were badly corroded which explains why I couldn't receive ANY signal...now cleaned and sprayed and tv signal works!.. he put a temporary jumper line from the 12V battery cable connection to another fuse line in the convertor to test it and yes, they both worked..so it seems I really do need a battery after all--is this correct?Janalee

Some vintage converters would not work without a battery but you would have no lights either. To the best of my knowledge the only red wire in the fuse panel is for the TV amp/cig lighter. I remember cracks in the cigarette lighter circuit board causing the lighter socket not to work but can't remember if it affected the TV amp. Cleaning up the antenna wiring connection probably fixed it because the amp switch inside injects 12 volts into the cable to power the amp inside of the antenna.

Janalee · 03-25-2018, 11:13 AM

Mainah... what did this mean: "I remember cracks in the cigarette lighter circuit board causing the lighter socket not to work but can't remember if it affected the TV amp. "
The red wire is what we jumped to a different circuit which caused the power to the lighter and the amp to work. I now found reference in the convertor info about the red wire being the power to the amp,stereo and such,probably for pure sine power. So I guess once I have a battery inline I will be good to go! But: what was the reference to cracks? A typo maybe? Janalee

mainah · 03-25-2018, 03:59 PM

OK bottom line the TV switch red light and the power to the antenna must have 12 volts to work. Some converters had to have a battery connected in order to work so if there is none the converter can not provide 12 volts. I have no ideal if yours does or not if the camper lights do not work plugged in then it has to have a battery connected for any thing 12 volts to work. As far as cracks it still has to have 12 volts first if the lighter socket or red light still don't work then it's possible that there is a board issue. If the camper lights light then you will have to find out why the TV gadget has no power fuse maybe? I don't know I can't see it from here so it's a matter of why doesn't the TV control have power when the other things do. If the fuse was jumpered from another one and it worked I would start by replacing the fuse.

**JohnB** · 03-25-2018, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janalee

My nephew brought his ladder and I checked the connections on the antenna and they were badly corroded which explains why I couldn't receive ANY signal...now cleaned and sprayed and tv signal works!.. he put a temporary jumper line from the 12V battery cable connection to another fuse line in the convertor to test it and yes, they both worked..so it seems I really do need a battery after all--is this correct?Janalee

Hi Janalee,

As mainah stated, "some" of the older converter needed a battery installed to work correctly. I'm not close enough to know what Sunline installed in a 95 camper. If you know the make and model of the power converter we can look it up.

Now to the jumper wire, we need a little more info to understand all of what was going on in the camper. And or still is.

First is, was there any 12 volt power on inside the camper during this problem time? If so, what items do you recall being able to work with no battery installed and plugged into shore power?

It appears your nephew got the TV antenna working. Bad connections on the roof it sounds like then he jumped 12 volt power into the converter panel to power up the TV amp/socket to work. If we understand that correct, then the TV antenna may be fixed. And now the issue is what did he have to jump it? (lack of 12 volt DC somewhere, somehow)

The why is easier to answer if we know what else is working or not inside the camper with no battery installed. You can even test it now if nothing has changed. Does the fridge light work if it the fridge is turned on, are there any lights working, the furnace, the water pump, the radio if yours has one etc.

Sunline normally did not create a seperate circuit just for the TV amplifier/socket. There are other items on that same fused circuit so maybe trying to sort out what works or not can help with the next problem.

As to the battery needing to be in, if something inside the camper works, like the lights or the water pump etc. and there is no battery, then your converter is working without a battery. The problem of no power to the TV antenna may be separate issue yet to be determined.

Hope this helps

John

Janalee · 03-26-2018, 07:37 AM

Thanks all for the input.

mainah · 03-26-2018, 08:03 AM

The TV wire is more often then not to be red in the fuse panel most often the rest will be black. That is not a given though. By jumping the circuit to make it work identified the feed wire so the question is why does that circuit have no power? Does the fuse have power on both sides or just one? Does the circuit have no power while the others do? Generally the lighter circuit was by itself because it would be possible to actually use it to light a cigarette and that could draw a sizeable amount of power or a fan,lamp etc. so they generally were fused in the 15 amp range. Because a camper has no key switch there usually was just one power feed to the DC panel and each circuit took its power from that single feed point through individual fuses.

Janalee · 03-26-2018, 11:05 AM

This is all resolved--Mainah you are correct about the red wire and that is what our testing had revealed. So according to what I read in the convertor panel,the red goes to the battery which then powers tv amp and cigarette lighter outlet,stereo,radio--so because in my case there is no battery feeding that circuit, I have no power to ONLY those things. Everything else in camper is working!! By jumping over to the red wire we enabled that circuit to power my tv amp via power from another circuit proving the information supplied. So. .. I will get a battery installed for camping so I can have good tv reception. Since I always had a battery on my other units I hadn't run into this. Guess it was just a lapse in memory on my part probably age related. LOL!! So you can figure case is closed! (Now you all have maybe learned something from this post too!) Janalee

mainah · 03-26-2018, 05:38 PM

No, your fine I guess they did that to provide a keep alive circuit for the the radio memory with a direct connect to the battery however if it does not have a fuse it needs one! Mind you 23 years is a lot of time for people to tinker wiring! What I'm saying I don't understand why it not in the fuse panel. Does it have a battery switch?

Janalee · 03-26-2018, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainah

No, your fine I guess they did that to provide a keep alive circuit for the the radio memory with a direct connect to the battery however if it does not have a fuse it needs one! Mind you 23 years is a lot of time for people to tinker wiring! What I'm saying I don't understand why it not in the fuse panel. Does it have a battery switch?

Sorry Mainah..guess I wasnt clear..Yes it has a fuse,a blue one, which I believe it was 15 amp (memory). As I recall, those dedicated circuits to the battery were to provide clean pure 12v power w/o distortion from the other circuits..No matter..all is good here..Ty..Janalee

**JohnB** · 03-26-2018, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janalee

As I recall, those dedicated circuits to the battery were to provide clean pure 12v power w/o distortion from the other circuits..

Bingo!!! I had forgot about this. Yes, some of the older power converters were very noisy electrically. So they had these separate feeds from the battery. I do not know what model year this all stopped as the newer campers the power converters are so clean in creating 12 VDC they did not need these direct feed circuits.

If your power converter has one of these split type of 12 volt systems in the power converter, then yes it would need a battery to power up those specific clean circuits.

mainah · 03-27-2018, 07:46 AM

The emissions from a converter are RF and it very wide banded same is true of a PWM solar controller directly connected to the battery. Would it help to direct connect to a battery? Maybe but any wiring can make for a dandy antenna I think their reasoning was for memory retention. I have some very nice recessed LED fixtures they were quite cheap they used a PWM voltage regulator, the noise in my FM radio was so bad it all most killed the reception completely I think that was why the were so cheap. I had to remove the supplies and make my own voltage regulators for the lights. We did some tests and the majority of the emissions were right in the middle of the FM band! This is why I suggest to people not to buy LED fixture that will work over a wide DC voltage for use in a camper because they use PWM regulators some are listed with voltages from 5-30 volts!

**JohnB** · 03-27-2018, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainah

The emissions from a converter are RF and it very wide banded same is true of a PWM solar controller directly connected to the battery.

H'mm, PWM on solar controllers and noisey, good to know. Do the inverters have the same issue on the better ones?

mainah · 03-27-2018, 04:33 PM

The PWM's turn on and off the amount between the two determines the amount of current I have an older one on my solar panel and you can hear a motor boat type of noise on the FM radio. There are new types that are pretty quiet. The early switching converters were noisy. I'm a ham radio guy so I'm all over the place as far frequences I had a battery maintainer that I could hear on one of my radios 400' away! My newer converter is very RF quiet I can run my radio from the 12 volt supply while it's running. With the proliferation of electronic gadgets the manufactures have been pretty good about harding their gear against noise because if you read the notice on the device it says it has to except interference.