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Old 07-26-2008, 10:56 PM   #1
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The Sun is Pealing. Need a way to stop it.

Fellow Campers.

My prior TT owner was not as meticulous in the TLC department on the outside of the TT. Iím assuming they did not 303 or other form of UV treat to protect the decals on the TT. When I acquired this TT last fall I did treat all the decals and several times since. However the underlying damage is already done.

This has started now advancing sort of rapidly as when I got the rig last fall nothing was lifting on the Sun except in the middle area some blisters started. And then this spring it started onto the outsdie edges. I trimmed it back to nothing hanging thinking that would stop it and again did more 303 treatment. But in less then a month, the peeling continues where it started and is quickly getting worse.

Does anyone know of a way to seal and stop this? I heard some do a silicone seal around the outside but thought I would try here on the forum in case someone else has actually done this or something else better.





I also have the problem on the end decals.


Any thoughts?

John
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:05 PM   #2
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Hi John,

Unfortunately, I don't know a way to make them stop peeling other than to look for some 3M clear film in sheet form that you could apply over the whole logo. If I could find some, I'd consider doing this to mine just for preventative reasons.

I believe Stoltzfus has the replacement ones for your coach, so you could call them and get a new one. It's hard to say how well it would stick on its own though.

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Old 07-26-2008, 11:56 PM   #3
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John,

Back in the '70's and '80's we had an older gent who did all the vinyl and Scotchlite lettering and signage on our ambulances. I sat with him one day when he was lettering up our newest ambulance and learned a few things about putting down this stuff.

One of the things he did when he finished applying the signs or lettering was to let it sit for a day or two to ensure that the adhesive was fully set on the surface of the vehicle. Then he'd come back and coat the entire vinyl or Scotchlite with marine spar varnish. It overlapped onto the paint of the truck by at least 1/8' or more. That completely sealed up the edges of the lettering and logos and lasted for the life of the vehicle.

We washed those trucks after every run in the winter and several times a week the rest of the year. They usually were wiped dry with towels after washing.

The sign guy did tell me that if the varnish began to wear away, just clean it well, then wipe with a clean rag lightly sprinkled with mineral spirits to prep the surface, and re-apply a coat or two of marine spar varnish. It would even be OK just to re-do the edges.

While the varnish added a very slight yellow tint to the lettering, it was very acceptable. IMHO the white or blue or black scotchlite or vinyl that we used looked better after varnishing.

The one important thing is for the edges of the vinyl to be firmly down on the surface of the vehicle and no dirt stuck to what little tiny bit of adhesive it can reach on the edge.

In the case of the vinyl emblems on our TT's, I am not sure if this technique will be useful to everyone. If I recall, there were some recent years where the vinyl used by Sunline for logos was of poor quality and will deteriorate and peel regardless of any fixes applied now. Perhaps if the varnish coat was applied when the TT was new, it may have helped.

My '99 has some peeling of the design on the sides of the trailer, and particularly on the side that sees more sun. But the straight striping is in preetty good shape for its age. One of the three colors is fading. however, but no sign of peeling yet. The large Sunline logos front and rear are just now beginning to show some deterioration.

It may not be possible to preserve these vinyl signs on our TT's for more than a few years. It may just be the nature of the beast to crumble over time. I suspect that TT's that are faithfully stored indoors and away from the sun may have vinyl signage that will appear to last for many years. I suspect that UV and heat/cold cycles combined will just trash this stuff over time if the vehicle is stored outdoors.

One fix that I have recommended to others is to take the rig to a sign shop that specializes in truck lettering and in vinyl work, and see if they can help. They may have some tricks up their sleeves that we're not aware of yet. And, any good sign shop should be able to reproduce the logos and designs either on vinyl or painted right on the skin of the TT. The only unknown is cost.

There is no easy answer here, I am afraid. I would try varnishing the edges for starters and see if that helps. The designs on the side of my TT peeled a lot in one season, and I didn't get to them in time to save them. They're so slim that a little peeling went most of the way across the design. I am going to do the big logos this summer and see if it helps.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:08 AM   #4
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Steve,

Just to give you an idea, the welcome sign we had at the Buttonwood M&G was 3X12 and cost $125. I did all the design of the sign and went in with a CD of the file in hand. I'm sure that saved on some cost, but it sure isn't cheap. The logo on the banner was printed on, not stuck on, so I'm not sure what a cost difference would be between the tarp banner material and adhesive vinyl. The Sunline logo on the sign is larger than the real one, I think roughly 1.5x. I was thinking about having a small one made for my spare tire cover, so if I do, I'll post the cost of a mini verson.

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Old 07-27-2008, 11:00 AM   #5
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I talked to my cousin a little the other day about decals and graphics using vynil for replacement on the 78' truck camper rebuild. While he does mostly tinting in his business, he has some experience with adhesive vynil doing clear bras, graphics packages, and pin striping.

He informed me of the following. With most everything in life, there's a cheaper grade vynil that's used a lot now in the industry. The price difference is nominal but you know how some companies run. The material used in the making of those logos is very probably a 3 year vynil. The '7A' is the thicker mil, 7 year warrantee.

He told me about the 'blotter printer' that's required to do nice fades like those on the newest Sunline logo and how costly they are even for an 18" machine... $5k, and as they get wider they run into the 10s of thousands!)

He also talked about what Jon touched on. If you're going to a graphics shop, have a template ready so you're not paying for their design time. His estimation for a '1st copy print' of the old 78 logo was $100-$150(using a picture and having them design off the photograph) and each after would probably be around $30.

If I were in your shoes I'd call around after getting the dimesions and design template and see what a local graphic shop might charge you for a printing. It might be a hair cheaper than what Stoltzfus is charging($45/sticker) and you can make sure you're getting it printed on a quality adhesive backed vynil material that will last much longer than the OEM stickers still available. Personally, I forsee many people down the road that are going to be looking for replacement decals.

Hope that gives a little insight.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:08 PM   #6
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Steve, Jon and Jason

Thanks guys. Some of this I knew and some not. Steve the marine varnish never knew that one.

Nor the 3-year vinyl thing.

I do have a buddy in the graphics arts design world that prints on a lot of things. He made up a large banner for our Scout Troop just like the Large SOC one we had at the M & G and decals for the side of the Troop trailer. Actually the price Jon got was not that bad for one that big. We had ours donated but on the open market sings that big are expensive.

The front stone guard Sun is perfect, but the back one is going fast.

The T2499, also a 2004, that I but tons of TLC into has no decal issues. However she does sleep inside too. The real Sun, is a killer on anything of plastic formulation

I was hoping someone had a magic bullet but does not seem that way. If I find anything I'll post back.

Thanks again for the time to type so much. Much appreciated.

John
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Old 07-31-2008, 08:27 PM   #7
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How about the alternative of removing the decal entirely? I may be a little cranky on the subject, but to my way of thinking decals are more trouble than they're worth. While they look good for a year or two, they inevitably begin to fade and look lousy. I used to rub a little vegetable oil on mine to make them look better, but the effect is temporary and the sun continues to do its damage. It's interesting, if you notice customized automobiles that have had their manufacturer's nameplates, model identifications, and auto dealer decals removed, their look is clean and attractive. Shouldn't the same be true for removing decals from a trailer? Of course, this assumes the surface underneath the decal is in the same shape as the exposed surface.
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donreitz
How about the alternative of removing the decal entirely? ....

Of course, this assumes the surface underneath the decal is in the same shape as the exposed surface.
Don
Don,

H'mm.... At the rate it is going, it will occur on it's own.

On this one, it is stuck onto a form of plastic siding of some sort, not aluminum. The white under the pealing part is not whiter then the area outside it. So I do not think I will have a witness line of color change if and when it comes off.

Now a good question to anyone knowing, since I have not yet found how to stop it, the day it advances to the point of "yuk" are the looks, how does one get the rest of the stuck on left over decal off?

Thanks

John
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Now a good question to anyone knowing, since I have not yet found how to stop it, the day it advances to the point of "yuk" are the looks, how does one get the rest of the stuck on left over decal off?
John,

The vinyl will come off the same way we got the caulking off the roof under the vents... gentle heat. Since this one is on the plastic/fiberglass material on the front window shade, I'd suggest starting with really low heat and work up gradually until you find a temperature or duration of heat application that softens the adhesive and doesn't damage or darken the material underneath.

The remaining adhesive should come off with mineral spirits. You may want to test the mineral spirits on a hidden spot of the material just to make sure it doesn't stain, although soap and water should clean up things well after you are done with the mineral spirits. My experience on removing these things is limited to auto finishes and the alumnium siding of TT's, but getting it off the material of that shade should not be terribly different. Just move slowly and cautiously until you know what will safely do the job.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:55 AM   #10
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I've always had good luck removing decals and lettering with a wallpaper steamer. I have a Wagner steamer that does a great job. I just apply the steam until the adhesive is soft, and the sticker comes right off. As Steve aid, mineral spirits takes care of the rest. The steam is not as harsh as a heat gun, and you can be heating the next section as you peel off the softened part.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:38 PM   #11
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Chris and Steve

Thanks guys. I was thinking heat but have never done this, so wanted to ask first.

I actaully have both, the wall paer steamer and the heat gun. If steam will work, I'll start there as it is limited to around 210 - 212F and the heat gun...I can make a boo boo faster...


Thanks again.

John

PS Steve you mentioned the front window, it is actually the back window.
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Old 08-15-2008, 02:57 PM   #12
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Can I use a hair dryer to remove some decals from my sunline ?
The big one on the back of my camper is peeling pretty bad, as well as a small one on the side. My camper has the aluminum siding, not the smooth, suface offered as an option. any info appreciated. thanks Sunline1
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Old 08-16-2008, 09:24 AM   #13
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Actually a hair dryer is better than a heat gun because it won't burn the finish on the coach.
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Old 08-16-2008, 10:54 AM   #14
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thanks, I"ll give it a try.

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Old 08-16-2008, 08:36 PM   #15
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I've removed door decals on my previous Sunline with a hair dryer which worked quite well. I started at one side and pulled the old decal off as the heat caused it to let loose.

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Old 09-12-2008, 05:52 PM   #16
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Decals

I spent my entire working life (40+ years) in graphics, signages, decals,etc. Most RV mfr's have chosen to use a 5 year vinyl, although several used to use 3M's best, which was 7 years. However, so much depended on the surface prep before applying the decal, and the thoroughness of the application...squeegeeing it tight, preventing air bubbles and being sure of tight edges. I can't begin to say which vinyl Sunline chose, but I would have guessed it was a 5 yr. product. I replaced 2 of the side decals on my 2553 within 3 yrs. of purchase. They appeared to me to be application issues, since they must follow the contour of the aluminum on the sides...it's not the easiest application.

When decals are applied in a production atmosphere, there is bound to be some which do not get applied as thoroughly as they should.

As far as removing decals, there are some gentle spray solutions out now....citrus-based, that really remove the decal and the adhesive. So in case the heat doesn't do what you would like it to, this is a suitable and safe "plan B".

Sorry this is a little late...hope it can help someone.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:48 PM   #17
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Thomas

Youíre not too late and thank you.

Do you have any tips on how to stall out the peeling process once started? Sealing some how from spreading? At the rate of my fading sun.... Some where in the next year I may have to pull it off before it looks so messed up I can't stand it.

The TT was built in Oct of 2003. The front Sunline on the rock guard is still perfect, but the back one is heading down hill fast. I was not the original owner so I suspect it never had any type of UV protectant applied over it until I acquired this unit last fall. I can tell by all the other outside plastic parts.

Thanks

John
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:11 PM   #18
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New Rear Decal

Hi Fellow Sunlinerís

Some time has past since this post trying to save my rear decal. There was no saving it, I took it off about a year and a Ĺ ago. Today I installed a new one. I reviewed this post as it had some good info in it about what to do on a new decal to create a long lasting setup. More on that in a moment.

Learned some new things today. First was putting the decal on. I have never done one this big before. I looked up my old pic on how Sunline placed the decal. They centered the entire width on the camper. So I followed that same pattern, centering the entire width on the camper. I measured and put 2 vertical plumb marks on the camper and on the decal so I could line it up straight before applying.

OK taking a step back here is the camper and the decal.

The camper, no decal.


The decal itself. I bought this off a fellow forum member who bought them from Stoltzfus in Adamstown PA. Adamstown, Pennsylvania, Cedar Creek, Salem, Surveyor, RV, Fifth Wheel, Class A, Park Model, Dealer, Used, Parts, Travel trailer,camping trailer He bought a new 5er and sold his Sunline and I acquired both decals. YEH.






For those that have never seen how these go on, it has 2 paper coverings with the decal in the middle. The top peels off and so does the backer and when the backer is exposed the adhesive is exposed.


I started off on the top. Lined up the marks vertically and determined the starting height so the ending height would end up where I wanted it, This decal ďjustĒ fit. It was a little bigger then the original. You peel back a small amount of the backer paper. And then stick it and wipe it evenly on.


You work your way down while slowly peeling more backer paper off and wiping firmly from the top down to get all the air out and it be stuck to each crease line on the camper siding.


Peel off more backer and keep going


Here you can see it is going to end up overlapping onto the window frame. There is a fix for that. Stay tuned.


Now that I am close to the end, I used a body putty applicator that is smooth & flexible and thick enough and made of like a vinyl. I saw this at a Jayco factory tour or something that looked real similar.


You start at the top and work it all down and crease the lines of the siding. Goal is no air bubbles and I did good, have none.


I worked it close to the bottom. Then trimmed the decal with a new sharp utility knife blade just above the window frame. I did this in case I ever have to pull the widow out and so no water would ever get in behind the decal trying to jump over the window frame. Then smoothed it with the body putty knife


Now you peel the top paper off the decal. I started at the top and peel slowly to not raise the edge of the decal stuck to the camper. And went down and off completely. And I gently and firmly wiped all edges of the exposed decal to make sure they are set.






Now we stick on the little bottom piece. Same thing, peel a small amount of backer off, stick it then pull the rest of the backer off. And then the top layer


And work it over the window frame and peel it off. It just fit exactly on the aluminum. My lucky day!!!!


Here is the entire decal on




So now I have a fresh new Sunline decal. However it is not the same as my original 2004 decal. I never knew Sunline had this color mix Maybe Sunline Fan can fill in what year decal I have. It is almost a 2004 or maybe it is a later model production 2004.

The decal is slightly larger and no silver in it. It is not the orange sun of the 2006/2007ís. Maybe it is a late 2004 or a 2005.

It seems to match closer to the Solaris decal I have


See the original on my front that I saved last year and it is holding up very well. It is silver trimmed. Not brown, gold and blue.


Oh well, it is still a Sunline and a fresh one.

Now any ideas on how to preserve it? Steve Collins was talking about the varnish. Steve what brand etc would that be?

On my prior camper I bought new I 303 Protectant treated them and they held up well. However it too lived indoors.

Iím cautious on doing the same trick I have done on the front Sun as that is filon smooth siding. The back has corrugations and I have found on the sides of the camper with large corrugations the Helicopter tape does not hold well over all the bends. But this back one is not as harsh a bend as the sides.

Anyone with thoughts?

Thanks

John
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:43 PM   #19
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John, I believe that decal is the side/rear decal from the Fifth Wheels. I got one too from Stoltzfus because I heard they were a little different. It seems to be a smaller version of the really large front FW logo. When looking at the FW side/rear logo in the original application, it does look more oblong/tall than the normal trailer logo.

BTW, I really like what you did with the bottom swoosh, by putting the remainder on the window frame. It looks so much better than just leaving it off.

Jon
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:00 PM   #20
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That looks real good, I am jealous. As Jon said, nice touch adding that bottom piece of the decal on the window frame.

I wish I had taken a big picture of just the decal when mine started to go bad so I could attempt to have it replicated. I did find a site that will make anything from a high quality jpeg or gif image.
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