New Member With Big Plans

[Honda03842]

A little rambling...

I wish that I had started my adulthood in a trailer.

My goal as I age, is to make life as easy and fun as possible.

From 10 years of RVing and 3 years of trailer living I've come to appreciate the importance of a place for everything. To me that means a lot of (storage) places but not jammed packed full storage. The second thing is I learned how little we need to live happily. To me if you're not using it don't take it. It's a marvelous country and if you really need it, your neighbor or a local store has one.

As part of this thinking, our draws are frequently subdivided with plastic containers (available at Walmart for $1).... a tray for batteries, a tray for kitchen clips... In the bathroom we extend this to a hairbrush tray, a razor tray,... and so on. Over the bed we have a tray for our glasses, one for our meds, ..... Very often we just screw them to the wall.

Of course our trailer was very small, but we had a lot of trays like this.

As well most cabinets had slide out draws (no back of the cabinet hiding), like for bread, pots, frying pans, outside for tools. We built draws into the bottom of the dinette seats.

We had one large, tall overhead cabinet over the bed. I never got to it but intend to put a draw in the bottom. It was too tall and needed to be divided.

I do not want our trailer to be an extension of my home. It's purpose is to provide what the two of us need to be comfortable. Cuteness is not our goal, easy care and usefulness is our goal.

We put storage everywhere - storage over the door (keys, camera), storage over each window (Nature books, ipod, headphones, geocaching gps), storage on the ends of cabinet walls (Charging station, satellite receiver).

We have also come to appreciate the advantages of the modern electronics world. We have Verizon wireless and run it through a router so we both can be on our computers just about anywhere in the USA. We have Satellite TV so we can make rainy days enjoyable and catch our shows at will (it turns out we receive the major networks of both the east coast and west coast providing two opportunities 3 hours apart for network TV and many different NFL games), We've added Netflix for $9 a month and can see a good movie in minutes over the internet, and as many as we want when ever we want. Most recently we've added barnes and noble electronic books via our computer and Blackberry allowing us to read a book, any book any where. As well B&N allow lending of books you buy to other for 14 days. I see a vast internet lending library coming. Lastly we're geocachers and usually plan a few hikes to find caches on our travels, they are every where and found a number even on the Labrador Highway. Geocaching invariably takes you to a place you won't find on your own. Often a local person has found a place you should see.

Now I know many of the members of this site are primarily weekend campers primarily because they still work. We are on the road for 6-10 months a year and electronics is making it more fun - the information and entertainment available is amazing.

In conclusion lots of storage, lots of electronics and a good multiple position, charging station.

I will say our trailer loading varies by the type, and location of the travel. Sometimes we do carry a generator or extra tools if we're off the beaten track, or extra bottled water where the water quality is suspect. In general we pack lightly and carefully in as many storage places as we can create.

Thoughts,

[pextron]

Great suggestions.

I completely agree about storage space and have been looking at various methods I can use to get the most out of every inch of available space, which has caused me to make a number of revisions to my floor plan. In fact, I am considering a major revision right now but have not decided which floor plan I like best yet. Regardless, it's amazing how much space you can find if you look for it. Especially when you are working with a scale model in 3D.

Fresh water storage capacity is also a major concern for me because I like to go off the beaten path and will be doing a lot of boondocking. I hope to have at least a 30-50 gallon main fresh water tank with an additional 30-50 gallon reserve tank capacity available if I need to use it. If all goes as planned, all main (fresh, grey, black) tanks will be mounted between the frame rails in close proximity to the axles to evenly distribute their weight. I have also considered the possibility of my fresh water reserve tank as being a sort of ballast tank, which would allow me to fine tune the tongue weight of the trailer for smoother towing.

Some of my boondocking will likely be during the off season so good insulation of the tanks and living area is yet another thing that I have to give very careful consideration to. Currently, I am looking at high density foam but am having a hard time justifying the cost so I may ultimately use standard foam core in conjunction with conventional fiberglass insulation.

All that and I haven't even begun to design the electrical systems yet. What I do know is that I plan to maximize my battery storage capacity and have thought about using 2-4 6v deep cycle batteries because they tend to have more capacity but the only problem with them is that they have to be used in pairs and if you lose one you lose both. With that in mind, I may use 2-4 conventional 12v deep cycle batteries instead. My tennative plans for keeping the batteries charged will likely include solar and wind turbine technology coupled with a backup generator. Power conservation will also be a high priority.

Lastly, I like big windows too.

[Honda03842]

Water
We have boondocked some and I have kept track of water usage. We spent 4 days and 3 nites in Denali at a campgroound some 30 miles into the park with two teenage grandchildren. We brought in 100 gallons. When we left we were empty.

We spent 5 days and 4 nites in Chaco Canyon (as good as Denali) and used 35 gallons.

In our motorhome we typically travel with about 25 gallons, only loading more if we're going into someplace like Denali then only filling our tanks at the park entrance. In our trailer we carry no more than 10 gallons unless we're doing a Chaco Canyon and than go for a full tank (23 gallons).

We usually change our mode of living when boondocking - paper plates and careful usage.

Our balck tank and water tank are both inside the trailer so there's no problem there. Our gray tank is flat wide and thin. It's hard to imagine freezing would do anything to a partially full tank. It's also mounted to the floor. I poresently have foam across the front of this tank to protect it from stones and will cover the bottom, paritcularly since I have a lot of leftover foam pieces in 1, 1.5 and 2 inch thicknesses.

I do wish our water tank was larger but we're using the tanks from our original small sunline. If I were doing a long boondock I would take a backup water container.

Our black tank has lasted 7 days.

As to insulation our new trailer has R-10 walls and R-18 ceiling/roof and near an R12 floor, truly high for a trailer. We have used high density construction foam in the building of our trailer. The walls, floor and roof all contain at least 2" polystyrene foam, minimally R-10. It's about $14 for a 2x8 foot piece. In general it is the inner surface of our entire trailer though most of it is covered by cabinets. Where it's not covered by cabinets it's painted or has vinyl wallpaper. The foam is ratede for 250 #s per square inch. If you buy it at the big box stores be careful because they sometimes mix 150 and 250 pound per square inch material. One nice feature is that it does not absorb water.

Our trailer door had white construction foam and that absorbed and held water like a sponge.

As to batteries, we have had a pair of 6v Trojan 105s for 13 years and still going strong. They are never not under charge and we use a converter with a built in desulfation cycle. Last year we had home built solar cells on the roof that were great for boondoocking. As well they provided power for our fridge which is AC only. If you have solar cells you may not need a gas/electric fridge.

As to storage space I think a lot depends on how you use it. Is it readily accessible (i.e. draws under the dinette or in the end of the dinette). The biggest wasted space or poorly accessible spoace is under the bed.

Wish you well in your planning. I spent a full year thinking about my design and change something every day as I build it.

Good luck

[Honda03842]

Pextron,
Though the floor, walls and roof are well insulated, our windows are not. We do have thermopane windows in our motorhome but we've found that in the longer term they are prone to failure, eventual having seal failure and moisture gets in. They are nice because condensation does not build up on them. Of course the biggest windows in a motorhome, the windshield are not thermopane.

We really loved our jalousied windows in the Sunline. When you open them they are virtually 100% open not like most trailer windows that are barely 50% open. Of course they are not thermally efficient but low temperatures have not been a problem even with them. Like the Irish cottage we spent a winter vacation in, thick curtains are a partial solution.

Our present Sunline did not have an airconditioner but it seemed to be fine without it, probably because we don't travel too much in the summer.

Windows are a big decision.

[pextron]

I actually thought that the build portion of my project would be the hardest part but as it turns out, just finding a mid 90's model (or newer) travel trailer that is water damaged, priced right, and suitable for my build project has been next to impossible. So far, I've located a few but unfortunately, I didn't get to them before they were sold.

My search for that needle in the haystack continues.

[Trailblazer]

Just doing some catch up on the forum and came across your post. First let me Welcome you to the forum. Next let me say that I would be very interested in following your build. When I was young my father and my uncle build a slide in truck camper in the garage that our family used for many years. Although I was very young I was able to help our some during the build and was very sorry to see it go the day it was sold. The nice part of being able to build your own unit is that you can take your time and add the extra quality and features to it as you build it. Like John, when we retire I would love to do a complete rebuild over our 5'ver, but also like John we use are trailer all year long and also have no plans to stop right now.

So far I have enjoyed reading about your adventure and your planning and very much look forward to following the build.

[Sunline Fan]

Pextron,

From my experiences, you will have a very hard time finding a '90's or '00's trailer with water damage. Believe me, they are out there, but they aren't advertised that way.

As I've found with Gary's experiences, when a newer trailer is totaled, it is usually more worth their time to just crush whatever's left in with a backhoe and junk it. Apparently the appliances and other parts just aren't worth the work to disassemble them, since after all there are quite a few screws holding these units together. In order to get one of these, you just really need to be at the right place at the right time in order to get the opportunity.

Any trailer with non-flood water damage and no accident damage will never be sold as such. There are rare cases, but in most cases people try to deny the fact that it has water damage in this generation unit. Something '80's or older, yes, you'll find them, and plentiful too.

So my suggestion to you is if you are stuck on finding a newer trailer like that (like if you are wanting to reuse appliances, etc.), you really should look at one (possibly an older one) with severe water damage to see the signs. Then you will know what to look for when you look at the newer ones so you can point it out to the owners and hopefully get a better price that way. That's how I bought the trailer I had before this one, I pointed out what was wrong with the trailer to the owner and got him way down in price. Unfortunately it had more wrong that was hidden, but I still came ahead when selling it, even after all the repairs.

So all in all, broaden your search and just know what to look for...

Jon

[pextron]

Originally Posted by Sunline Fan

Pextron,

From my experiences, you will have a very hard time finding a '90's or '00's trailer with water damage. Believe me, they are out there, but they aren't advertised that way.

As I've found with Gary's experiences, when a newer trailer is totaled, it is usually more worth their time to just crush whatever's left in with a backhoe and junk it. Apparently the appliances and other parts just aren't worth the work to disassemble them, since after all there are quite a few screws holding these units together. In order to get one of these, you just really need to be at the right place at the right time in order to get the opportunity.

Any trailer with non-flood water damage and no accident damage will never be sold as such. There are rare cases, but in most cases people try to deny the fact that it has water damage in this generation unit. Something '80's or older, yes, you'll find them, and plentiful too.

So my suggestion to you is if you are stuck on finding a newer trailer like that (like if you are wanting to reuse appliances, etc.), you really should look at one (possibly an older one) with severe water damage to see the signs. Then you will know what to look for when you look at the newer ones so you can point it out to the owners and hopefully get a better price that way. That's how I bought the trailer I had before this one, I pointed out what was wrong with the trailer to the owner and got him way down in price. Unfortunately it had more wrong that was hidden, but I still came ahead when selling it, even after all the repairs.

So all in all, broaden your search and just know what to look for...

Jon

I am somewhat insistent about finding one with known or admitted water damage from around the mid 90's or newer despite the fact that they are almost impossible to find in my price range. However, I've began to adapt my shopping strategy to something similar to what you are suggesting by removing any mention of price from my wanted ad's and seeing what turns up that way.

If the price is in the ball park, I will attempt to locate and identify any damage that is present (it usually is) and use that to try and negotiate a lower price. The only drawback to using this approach is that I have to be more careful about how far I travel to go look at them as to keep my fuel costs for wasted trips as low as possible.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct about sellers trying to conceal water damage to get more money, I've seen it far too many times. It's just a shame that there aren't more honest people in the world but like the old saying goes, you have to take the good with the bad.

Ultimately, I may have to increase or perhaps even double the amount I am willing to spend but would only consider doing so if the right travel trailer came along because if I were to spend much more, I may as well wait and drop $5k on a decent newer used unit (supposedly) with no water damage when I have the money.

At any rate, I am hopeful that the odds of finding one that suits my needs start to improve as winter approaches. Until then, I will continue searching.

[JohnB]

Hi Pextron

We did not ask but you stated waiting and you may have to drop $5K to get a decent newer one.

I may have missed it but are you only looking for a frame and running gear or do you want a usable TT that you can get some of the appliance/tanks and other usable parts out of as well?

Reason for asking is the frame and running gear. Axles, springs, brakes, hangers, and a raw frame is not that much cost new. Have you looked into just buying a new TT frame with axles and brakes? Then build up the rest yourself. There really is not a lot to a TT frame.

Hope this helps

John

[pextron]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi Pextron

We did not ask but you stated waiting and you may have to drop $5K to get a decent newer one.

I may have missed it but are you only looking for a frame and running gear or do you want a usable TT that you can get some of the appliance/tanks and other usable parts out of as well?

Reason for asking is the frame and running gear. Axles, springs, brakes, hangers, and a raw frame is not that much cost new. Have you looked into just buying a new TT frame with axles and brakes? Then build up the rest yourself. There really is not a lot to a TT frame.

Hope this helps

John

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

What I meant by my 5k comment was that if I were too spend too much money on a used travel trailer to use as a donor for my build project that it would be more economical to wait until I had more money to buy an undamaged unit to use, thus abandoning my build project entirely.

With regard to what I am looking for, I hope to find a complete travel trailer (90's or newer) which has extensive water damage resulting from a leaky roof but is otherwise in tact. I plan to reuse as much as possible, including the frame, windows, doors, appliances, furnace, hot water tank, pump, siding, air conditioner, storage tanks, etc... Granted, there may be items which are not functional or missing but overall, it should save me a great deal of money in the long run because purchasing everything individually would be very expensive.

A much simpler way of looking at the travel trailer that will be used as a donor for my build project is to think of it as a kit, where I get almost everything I need except for the wood, paneling, roofing, etc...

It's a long shot, but I am hoping to find one that is the right length (24-26 feet) with the appropriate floor plan configuration so I can reuse the existing siding (as is) for the floor plan that I want to use. Fortunately, many travel trailers from the 90's seemed to use a front kitchen / rear bedroom configuration so it is possible that I may get lucky.

I have considered the possibility of buying just the frame and axels, then purchasing a newer travel trailer that was wrecked to harvest the needed components from, but my initial observations led me to believe that the cost could be prohibitive unless I got lucky and found a great bargain.