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Old 07-25-2009, 06:14 PM   #1
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need help with 1989 sunline seville

Hi, I'm really hoping someone out there can help me. We just purchased a 1989 sunline seville 32 ft travel trailer. I love it but my husbands not too happy with it right now. We discovered the black holding tank had been removed and we are trying to find one to replace it. The problem is we've been told that Sunline is closed and the camper dealers want 1000.00 to put one on for us. My husband and his friend is going to put one on to save some money as we tied up all our money in purchasing the camper. But, we were told that when we buy there's a no-return policy so we have to be sure it's going to fit before we buy it. Can someone with the same camper please tell us the dimensions of their black tank so we'll know what to order? We would be ever so grateful for any help we can get. Thanks, Linda
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Old 07-25-2009, 07:01 PM   #2
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Linda

First off, welcome to Sunline Club! We have many here to help and will try our best.

I do not know if you will find some one with the exact model of your camper, but there may be someone from that series made in the time frame that would be the same black tank.

However, $1,000 to put a new tank in? My goodness. I myself have not had the need to put a new one in, however they are not that complex, at least on the newer model ones.

I looked on the PPL Holmes site as one possible place. I have bought other things from them and had a positive experience.

Here are 2 links to them. The tanks cost is in the ~ $125 ish range. And you need some fittings too and may need a new dump valve etc. They claim 75 different types and some are stock. Along with instructions and you can call and talk to them.

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/r...ding-tanks.htm

Here are drawings of the ones they offer
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/r...tanks-pics.htm

Now, never having bought one myself, I heard that there was something about the plastic to make sure it was made a certain way that holds up better in RV holding tanks. Unfortunately I cannot remember what…. I have a faint recollection it was like it was spun cast or something to help I think with road vibration and strength.

We have had others here replace tanks. So hopefully they will pop in and help give better pointers.

If you get stuck, take some pictures of the bottom of the camper where the tank would end up and we can then see what a 89 camper looks like on the bottom and it may be very similar to the newer ones and we can post back pics of ours to fill in some of the missing puzzle pieces.

There is a solution to fixing up your tank. It’s not that bad and then you can go out and have fun in your new camper.

Hope this helps.

John
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:01 PM   #3
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John,

I believe the term you want is roto-cast.

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Old 07-27-2009, 03:29 PM   #4
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Re: need help with 1989 sunline seville

Quote:
Originally Posted by loneal
Hi, I'm really hoping someone out there can help me. We just purchased a 1989 sunline seville 32 ft travel trailer. I love it but my husbands not too happy with it right now. We discovered the black holding tank had been removed and we are trying to find one to replace it. The problem is we've been told that Sunline is closed and the camper dealers want 1000.00 to put one on for us. My husband and his friend is going to put one on to save some money as we tied up all our money in purchasing the camper. But, we were told that when we buy there's a no-return policy so we have to be sure it's going to fit before we buy it. Can someone with the same camper please tell us the dimensions of their black tank so we'll know what to order? We would be ever so grateful for any help we can get. Thanks, Linda
They're not cheap. The lying dog we bought our 1981 Sunline from lied to us about almost everything. He failed to tell us the BW tank was trashed. We found it out on our first camping trip. It was beyond repair. It cost $500 for a replacement tank which my husband installed himself. It was made to order for our TT. I wont go into the other things like the new battery that was dead, the leaks on one side, the shades that didn't work......
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo
John,

I believe the term you want is roto-cast.

Bobo
Bobo

YES that was it! now have to look up what is roto cast?
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:02 AM   #6
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Hi Loneal

Well I did some more digging and fond this. This may or may not help

http://plastic-mart.com/class.php?cat=34

These folks sell all kinds of plastic tanks including RV fresh and holding tanks. There is 7 gallon to 68 gallon listed there along with dimensions.

I know nothing about them other then it coming up in a search. They are not the manufacture they seem to be a wholesale tank house. And they have a web store. A 32 gallon waste tank was approx $179 less shipping. If you can find one that fits. They also state customs. HOWEVER call them if you are going down this route. There is no address even listed

In doing a search on Rotocasting, OK now I figured out what they are up to and why. When building a plastic tank you can start with sides in pieces and they plastic weld all the sides together. That process makes an OK tank but the vibration on the seems may wreak havoc going down the road as the lower seams are subjected to bound etc.

So they now make rotation molding, aka, Roto cast.

Here is a cut and paste from that site

About Rotational (Roto) Molding
Rotational Molding is a major breakthrough in the world of plastic production. It offers many key advantages over other types of production like injection and blow molding (see below). But the bottom line for the consumer is that this process produces better, stronger plastics at lower cost.
Once a three-dimensional design of the product is drawn using AutoCad or similar computer software, a team of machinists tools a mold (usually aluminum) to the design specifications. The mold is then sent to the plastics manufacturer, who adds the precise amount of plastic resin (hard and granular like sugar) into the mold and clamps it shut. Workers place the loaded mold into a large oven, which rotates it along both axis like a giant gyroscopic rotisserie. The aluminum heats up quickly, melting the plastic resin and coating the inside of the mold evenly. After the finished product cools and is lifted from the mold, it is inspected and shipped to the customer.
The Rotational Molding process offers several advantages over other plastic production methods:
• Better control over plastic thickness
• Thicker, stronger corners
• Seamless construction
• Unlimited design options including double walls, ribbing, and textured surfaces
• Less expensive mold tooling
• Larger and more complex pieces can be manufactured as one piece, saving assembly costs and allowing stronger construction
• Faster, cheaper color changes
• Logo/picture/text can be inserted directly into the plastic for longer wear!

Roto cast tanks show up as a sales features on many brands of RV’s It actually took me many pages to not get a hit on it being a feature on a brand of TT… But I have not yet seen a rotocast black tank with a flange on the outside like my Sunline. That flange would be hard to fill in the rotary mold.

But I did find this and these folks are real and I have bought from them with a positive experience. Just not a holding tank

http://www.dyersonline.com/Departmen...order=1&page=1

They are claiming ABS waste tanks, vacuum formed with a seamed on top and a large mounting flange. Actually the more I think of this, both of my Sunline waste tanks look just about like that. The bottom is a thermal formed looking 1 piece tub and a flat top is attached. Thermoforming is that take a sheet of plastic, heat it in a mold and then vacuum form the hot plastic up against the mold. If you where roto casting this, well then how do they make that flange you bolt the tank to the frame with?

My Fresh tank is all one piece and maybe a roto cast tank. It sits in a metal cradle to support the tank, no flange. But the waste tanks hang from the bottom of the camper. I can tell from the edge seem they appears to be a tub and a top welded together.

Tonight I will go out and look under the camper and report back.

This is the only tank pic I have on line showing this flange and it is not zoomed in to the seam.


I don’t know if this is helping you or not, but I’m getting an education in the process in case I ever need one.

Anyone else know? Are the actual Sunline waste tanks rotocast or thermo formed with a weld on top?

Hope this helps

John
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:21 PM   #7
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Hi All

Well I think I have settled my curiosity. The black and gray tank in my 2004 T2499 was made by Paramount Plastic in Elkhart IN.



There web site: http://www.paramountplastics.com/forming.html

From what I can tell, my black and gray holding tank in 2004 are ABS vacuum formed with a sonic weld on top. The heavy flange and seam appear to support this theory.

Here it the T2499 gray tank seam. The Black tank is the same way.


A close up


On my T310SR the tanks are made by WeVac Plastics, Elkhart IN

WeVac Plastics
2401 S 17th St, Elkhart, IN46517-1415
Tel: (574) 294-2585
Web Site: www.wevacplastics.com
Business Description: Plastic Vacuum/Pressure Formings Mfr

However I believe they may be out of business. A phone call would be in order. There web site declares the domain name is no longer used and you can buy it…



Those Black and Gray tanks are made the same way I do believe. ABS Thermoformed base with a sonic welded on top.




A close up


Both Paramount and WeVac use the same IAMPO shield symbol and the registered trade mark symbol. I think IAMPO is a plumbing type standard, sort of like a UL Standard on electrical items.

A phone call to Paramont Plastic may lead you to a tank or at least who sells them for them.

Hope this helps and please let us know how you made out. I have already learned from the experience.

John
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:38 PM   #8
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My tanks are from Paramount Plastics. When I was under there one time last year, I saw one of the tags coming off so I pulled it and the other one that I found off so I could keep them.

One tank is 21x60x10 with E/S drain and a H-22S written underneath as well as 10-18-05. The other tag I have has something written on it, but it's pretty faded and almost unreadable from the scan.

Jon
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:16 AM   #9
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The Sunline brochures from that era state that the black water tank for that size Seville is 40 gallons. There were several different floor plans for 32' models. Linda, do you know which model you have? If not, perhaps you can tell us whether the toilet is on the curb side or road side of the TT?

If the black water tank was removed, there still should be visible evidence of where it was mounted. (Indentations, screw holes, color changes, etc.) All the tank drawings that I looked at (John's links in above posts) showed the tanks measured to the outside dimensions of the mounting flanges. It should be possible to measure the footprint of the missing tank and then compare those dimensions to the tanks currently available.

Some pictures of the underside of the trailer in the area where the tank was located would be very helpful at this point. It would also be good to have pictures of the underside of the trailer from the tank area to the dump connections. That might help determine whether an end drain or side drain tank is required.

A couple of other questions come to mind however...

Linda, do you know the history of this trailer? I would be particularly interested to know if it was on a permanent site and if it still has an RV/marine style toilet in it. I have heard of folks who permanently site their trailers removing the black water tank and replacing the RV toilet with a standard residential toilet. That has its merits, I suppose, but it creates numerous problems for the next owner that wants to use the TT in a more traditional manner. Replacing the black water tank is only one of a number of challenges in that case.

If the unit still has an RV style toilet, do you know why the original black tank was removed? And is there any chance the original tank is still available for examination?

I don't think we're going to find an owner of the identical trailer at this point so it looks like we have to figure out as best we can what was there, and then help you locate a suitable replacement.
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Collins
The Sunline brochures from that era state that the black water tank for that size Seville is 40 gallons. There were several different floor plans for 32' models. Linda, do you know which model you have? If not, perhaps you can tell us whether the toilet is on the curb side or road side of the TT?

If the black water tank was removed, there still should be visible evidence of where it was mounted. (Indentations, screw holes, color changes, etc.) All the tank drawings that I looked at (John's links in above posts) showed the tanks measured to the outside dimensions of the mounting flanges. It should be possible to measure the footprint of the missing tank and then compare those dimensions to the tanks currently available.

Some pictures of the underside of the trailer in the area where the tank was located would be very helpful at this point. It would also be good to have pictures of the underside of the trailer from the tank area to the dump connections. That might help determine whether an end drain or side drain tank is required.

A couple of other questions come to mind however...

Linda, do you know the history of this trailer? I would be particularly interested to know if it was on a permanent site and if it still has an RV/marine style toilet in it. I have heard of folks who permanently site their trailers removing the black water tank and replacing the RV toilet with a standard residential toilet. That has its merits, I suppose, but it creates numerous problems for the next owner that wants to use the TT in a more traditional manner. Replacing the black water tank is only one of a number of challenges in that case.

If the unit still has an RV style toilet, do you know why the original black tank was removed? And is there any chance the original tank is still available for examination?

I don't think we're going to find an owner of the identical trailer at this point so it looks like we have to figure out as best we can what was there, and then help you locate a suitable replacement.


The man said he had it hooked straight to sewer with a connecting pipe running to grey tank. It does still have a rv toilet though. It's the 2 pedal kind. Little pedal you hold down to fill bowl then the big pedal flushes it.
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneal


The man said he had it hooked straight to sewer with a connecting pipe running to grey tank. It does still have a rv toilet though. It's the 2 pedal kind. Little pedal you hold down to fill bowl then the big pedal flushes it.
H'mm a 2 pedal kind. Never saw one of them. This has for sure been a learning post...

Thanks

John

PS So how are you making out? Any luck? Hopefully good.
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
H'mm a 2 pedal kind. Never saw one of them. This has for sure been a learning post....
Standard Thetford Aqua-Magic IV. It was king of the hill in the late 80's and all of the 90's.
Jon probably can tell us when they migrated to the single pedal models.
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Collins
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
H'mm a 2 pedal kind. Never saw one of them. This has for sure been a learning post....
Standard Thetford Aqua-Magic IV. It was king of the hill in the late 80's and all of the 90's.
Jon probably can tell us when they migrated to the single pedal models.
Steve

WOW!!! Thanks. A picture is worth a million words....
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:27 PM   #14
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I'm not sure that they ever went to the single pedal on these. I think the single pedal just came when they moved to the china bowl Sealand's.

Jon
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